ADAM..MAY ALL YOUR HUMILIATIONS BE PUBLIC....what a difference an inning makes..gee, what's the score. Could it be 4-1 for the Jays. It's getting boring watching all these home runs from Mr. ERA REED. Nyuk nyuk nyuk - 0:12:13 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

David:You are all familiar with the teaching of the Bible. But do you know that there is an older book about the beginning of the universe. I apologies because I do not exactly remember the name right now ( I think it is called THE TEMPERATE ) ( NOT rf. to William Shakespeare ) for I do not have access to this older Bible right now. But this Bible is of great interest. It tells about a world created 60,000 years before genesis. It tells of a world in which it is not God who created the universe but Satan. and it adamantly states that man lived in harmony and piece for all of those 60,ooo years. Then an angel becomes zealous and declares that we are superior to man and man should worship us or else we should create a hellfire to punish mankind for eternal damnation. Man will worship us out of terror and dread fear. Satan did not create mankind just for self power ego to worship him, he created mankind because he loves all life and all life is equal in the eyes of Satan. Their is a big debate in the heavens and one third of the angles break. Satan dose not punish them because of his love for all life and his belief that everyone should be in control of their own destiny. That angel who led one third of the angels away is whom we have come to call God. God passes his demands upon mankind and along with it, his teachings that he who worships me is better that he who dose not. Also just as he believes that angles are superior to man, he teaches that mankind is supeiror to all the other animals. I would like to point out that it states the God comes down out of the heavens and has actural intercourse ( SEX ) with Mary which begets Jesus. Note that in the well known Bible lots of angels came down form the heavens and ( so the angles of God came down and had sex with the daughters of man ) this was sometimes supposed to bring about the giants of old which Goliath was one and who was evil. Also I should like to point out the the dates for Jesus birth are correct Aug, 27 and also Jesus death of April 4th. So apparently this Bible is more accurate that the other Bible which has the dates all mixed up. One last point that I should like to make. Both Bibles mention that angels are not the sprits of deceased humans but creatures created long before mandkind and that all angels are male. So people who write about to-day’s angles are full of crap. That is if you really do believe in the Bible!!! - 18:05:36 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

DAVID:I DID NOT WRITE THE SENSORSHIP TO FOOTBALL. HOWEVER I TOTALY AGREE WITH WHOMEVER DID WRITE IT. WHEN I FIRST COME ONTO THIS SITE. I WAS ASKED, AS I AM SURE WERE YOU. THAT THIS IS A WEB SITE STUUCTURED TO ( MAN IS MAN MADE ) AND IF I WOULD PLEASE BE POLITE AND MATURE AND NOT TAKE UP THIS SITE WITH OTHER TOPICS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT SENSORSHIP BUT ABOUT BEING A RESPONSIBLE PERSON. SORRY IF THAT OFFENDS YOU BUT I WOULD THINK THAT ONLY A RELIGIOUS PERSON WOULD TRY TO RUIN THIS SITE BY FILLING IT UP WITH JUNK MAIL. - 18:17:47 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Of the value- be it as it may, that one may get out of the catholic encycl.-ce, site, what I see of it; just some folk attempting to maintain an account or storys of humans. No god, try to imply one as they may, its just some folks after stuff. They are either balsy or just stupid. In its account of mithraism it tells how mithra was born with shepherdsmen about and stars telling of mithra's birth, so who tells this story now, it was funny to see the ce types calling mithraites pagans! Isn't this that black pot thing? - 18:35:03 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

David:Sorry, I should have used a C instead of an S. lol - 18:35:06 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

STEVE:THERE IS DEFINITELY MORE TO LIFE THAN FOOTBALL. THAT IS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER WEB SITES. - 18:43:07 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

flighty:High concentrations of CO2 gas has been detected in the soil(The Long Valley) by scientists. The invisible gas seeping from beneath the volcano is killing "flight" on the sides of the mountain. CO2 is heavier than air and can collect in depressions posing a threat to people. The seepage of the CO2 and local earthquake occurrances are signs of ongoing geologic unrest. A breath of air with more than 30% CO2 can cause unconsciousness and death. As we know of the fact that carbon dioxide displaces oxygen. Large eruptions that brought about the formation of the Long Valley 760,00 years ago are extremely rare -none have taken place during the period of written human history. Scientists "see" no evidence that an eruption beneath of "massive proportions" might be situated in the Long Valley. In the future the volcanic explositivity index will be related measure. The GPS analysis plots of an IGS predicted orbit; the solution quality suffers from predicted orbits and a minute layered structure. Other daily solutions, using better orbits have more "data" but "day lags". - 19:01:41 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:STEVE<<>>it is not necessary to shout. Please turn your caps off. Also, many of the regulars on this site converse about all types of things. Atheism and/or religion is usually the topic, but sometimes we discuss other things which intrest us, like politics etc. If you do not like the comments regarding sports, then don't respond. Many of us have become familiar with each other (at least what we percieve the other to be) and have developed understandings/friendships. If you wish to discuss something, then bring it up. There is more to life than atheism, and sometimes we chose to discuss those things. :] - 19:02:59 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:FLIGHTY<<>>and your point is? - 19:05:03 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

flighty:Steven. No relative point just geological data attachments. - 19:11:50 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Robert:SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT IT IS CENSORSHIP THAT THEY CAN NOT ORDER A WHOPPER AT THE BURGER-KING. THOSE SAME PEOPLE ARE VERY ARROGANT! I USED TO VISIT HERE OFTEN BUT THEIR JUNK MAIL CENSORED ME AWAY! GO PLAY FOOTBALL AT A SPORTS WEB! - 19:12:03 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Steve:Steven, when you visit a football site, you do not find religious discussion there. neither should I find sports here. If you have become friends with others then perhaps you should e-mail them. For they are abusing this site. thank you. - 19:38:07 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:Steve<<>>who the heck made you the web page censor. If you don't like the talk about football, fucking bring something else up. I have never seen you post a damn thing, other than complain that we are talking about football. So, use that noodle and bring up something more interesting, hmmm. - 19:54:31 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:ROBERT<<>> puuuuulllleeeassse quit useing all caps. Check this out, see that little button under your 'tab' key, stroke it once please. - 19:56:46 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--Steve--I thought Steven explained rather succintly and sufficiently, why the occaisional diversion from the 'theme' of this chattroom appears. Was there something in his explanation you did not understand--and what more could he add? - 20:21:46 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Joette the nationalist..:-->Happy Birthday to Canada, Happy Birthday to Canada...thank you to Marlene (as an example) for making this the best country in the world to live in. - 20:47:26 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Jodidnotbette:-->and since we don't want to offend whomever it is that doesn't want to hear about soccer...here's a baseaball update. Although Adam attempted to portray the Blue Jays as bumbling fools, they are currently beating his Mets by a score of 15-8 (bwahahahahaha). Last night the Mets lost by a score of 6-3. I hope you don't choke on the crow you should be having for dinner ADAM. ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - 20:50:31 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID..this is the first time I have heard someone declare unequivocally the dates of Jesus' birth and death. Aside from your early bible reference, what other sources do you cite? - 21:38:01 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:DAVID: Accurate? A bible that is accurate? Do you really mean to say that such a nonsensical thing is possible in terms of either a true/false category? What source holds such data for a reasonable and thoughtful inquirey? A true bible, that is outta'this world! - 21:46:26 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOD SUX at SPORTS:SOCCER? I don't even KNOW her!ååååååååå Well, we all know that religous folk are so unilaterally obsessed with their primitive, childish delusions that they can't possibly think about sports or other diversions. Besides, everyone knows that god, being a general yellow-bellied wimp coward bastard (whose ass I most certainly can kick), that he is more the male cheerleader than the athlete. Jesus throws like a fucking girl! - 23:03:33 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOOD WORD UP!:Call Jesus what you want; just don't call him late for the last supper*********** According to the TRUE book of Seuss, Green eggs and ham were ordered at 7:52 AM on June 6, just as the new waitress was coming on at Smiley's. The order arrived promptly at 7:11, but on Dec. 25th, which thereafter became mistakenly known as Xmas. This inordinate delay led to the wrongful discharge of the day manager, Raymond Yu, who thereafter mistakenly became known as Ex-Ray, mon dieu! Ray is believed to be the cuckolded boyfrien of that waitress, who left the diner in protest of his dismissal. The two later opened up a successful catering hall known as The Immaculate Reception. It was there that the green eggs & ham were eventually hailed as the holy trinity treat or Breakfast of Christians (the father, Seuss; the son-of-Sam-I-am; and the holy toast with jam, hold the spam). The multimonth delay of the original sin breakfast at Smiley's never was discovered, despite exhaustive investigation by a secretive branch of the FBI specializing in the paranormal, which thereafter became known, mistakenly, as the X-Files. Are you getting all this, Davideo killed the radio star-of-David? Wow, I guess I'm officially back on the page for awhile. Feed your head. - 23:20:20 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

BRAVO! - 23:32:40 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

flighty: A number of say 1,000 characters per page at 99.5% accuracy, there is only one character incorrect out of say every 20 pages of data. Lower accuracy rates could mean dozen or even hundred errors per page occur. If the characters are technical nature and 8 characters long the average word, that means that as many as one out of 2 and a half words "could be wrong". What of Boolean logic (e.g., term "A" AND term "B") and phrase searching also. Character level accurancy rates may overstate the accuracy of words. A 95% accuracy level at the character level may mean only one out of 2.5 words-spelled correctly. For the "need" of absolute data, conversion processes can't be afforded. ***Also spell checking programs "ensure" all words are in fact words-> they do not "guarantee" that the words are the right words. For a crow of its "true breeding value" (I SHOULD SAY RANGE), one could see the likely range for "true breeding value" of index. - 23:59:53 on 1 Jul 98 GMT

rOB! - 0:03:15 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

flighty: A structure of cellular may be an abstract superclass for "description" of spatial or spatio-temporal gridded structures. In the geometric aggregate a recursion is not permitted in the subclass due to "a restricted clause" (a point, line-area-volumes of vectors, and of course the cellular structure). Geometric objects are spatially referenced-> they leave a position specified directly or indirectly through their constituent components. For a qualifer-of-its-location, there is the definite, indefinite, an approximate position(estimated from 'other' source material) and the virtual. For the virtual on the ground it does not exist, the required feature is to fulfill 'polygon closure requirements' for features of "polygon" intersected on a boundary of "data coverage". - 1:35:09 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

flighty:I am gripped by what I cannot tell or have I merely fell. I've been stiffened by serpent's soundless cries. Up in the hills, an apparition***filling me with superstition. A mad addiction for the pills***The night that I saw "Steinbeck's flight" to the lips in the hills. A eQUATED Blessing and good-bye as the crow enters the next portal. - 1:53:50 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette..perseverance will pay off..:lips in the hills - gee, where have we seen that before? Are all Druids this childish, or are only children Druids? Has someone insulted you so badly that you feel it necessary to keep spouting meaningless jargon? Would the questions be answered if they are posed in poetic form? - 2:27:48 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

I wear black on the outside because black is how I feel on the inside - 2:30:13 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..happy Canada Day to you too Joette and Peter! :Well I wear all white on the outside because I'm mostly red on the inside. Fitting for CaNaDa! - 3:44:48 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joe:flighty. To paraphrase Rhett Butler on your postings - "Frankly, my dear fellow, I don't give a shit." I don't have any idea what you're trying to say, and I don't think you do either. You remind me of the guy who's in love with the sound of his own voice. - 5:53:05 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

rOB--> sharing the cup of the deity of the occasion:Joette.. A computerized-gazed match with a person and we will know the Truth of any question asked to the victim. The Truth, however, is as the victim believes it. For the insult of the acorn nut is unity of us and nature. The machine-trance is unbroken as we continue with vague answers to visions, clear answers to sharp vision, and the insight to key events. After all, when one knows the future-one may affect the future. My geas avoid magical unbalance by oracular means; I know you are intelligent enough to realize this magical obligation. So try not to uncalm my holly that I have given to you as remedy. Do you want to act contrary to the forces of nature? As for the h2o, for example, and its use as name-> it is the direct influence of the spell invoked. The h2o determines the duration of the spell and the numbers of creatures called or "SIMPLY" the effect of the spell. The triad of magic as the psychic war is woven into reality. My awkward written word moves the target towards the emotion not of the C.L.Stevenson kind. I received a taboo by which my future actions are defined; those geas that are personal TO THE RECIPIENT'S actions that are most powerful. It is as good as gold JOE!?? For the geas to hold, the victim must know what the CONDITIONS are upon the laying of the gea. My dear logical Joette you have been experiencing a psychic war ever since I started posting at this site for curiosity sake, but the crow's word explained in a dictionary entry is not Carl's lyceum.*** You are standing in a clearing where a line of trees lead the eye down a path to a old lightening-struck oak tree. Around the clearing, you can hear the voices of Keats songbirds in the trees. Ambience and quietude of the place with great age. Approaching the Oak, you see two golden gates finely wrought with much decorations. A young "AND " old cloaked one with a "POSSIBLE" long white skull and white hair stands beside them: he "AND" she wears a garland of Oak. On the other side of the gate, you can see a great plumage-bird of many "CORNY" shinning in the solar. The corny bird watches you approach with something like humour in its optics. " Traveller, where is your destination", says the cloaked one in quiet tones, waving his arms so that a multitude of "VISIONS AND NAMES" float before you as choices. The cloaked one and the corny bird watch you as you step forward and touch the image of your wishful destination-place; There is "the virtual" in the air. Your body tingles and your skull-niche feels light- headed for a moment. Then the motif-scene fades and you find yourself in or r0BBED. - 8:00:30 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->rOB..I am not JOE. If I were to quote Rhett Butler, I would use the direct quote, not some silly paraphrase. Can't one commune with nature with believing their is something mystical behind it? - 10:42:15 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

REDUX...should read "with out believing.." - 10:43:12 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

rOB:At the end of "Lord of the Flies", Ralph weepingly cries for 'the end of innocence' and 'Conrad's Heart of Darkness', but his 'rational' intellect fails in the end. But Simon does not share the fear of the others and takes on an importance out of proportion to his role in the "written book". NOW, as Piggy would have asked, "what would grown-ups say???" Bright Blessings!!! - 14:40:11 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Looks like I'll have to pick up some'Cliff Notes'and see where and what might be the intensions of the fan of the lord of the flies. I tire of his inanity, he's like a neighborhood dog that bark and barks and barks and barks.(perhaps in that way could one understand that fan) Anyway, up to now I've been dropping in at the local libraries to peruse the c.e. But now that I can go from one article to another by touch, to me the sheer humanity of that writing effort is only to obvious. But, I cannot see any godthing like connection. For example, the bible tale of the jc character feeding many with a coupla'fish and loaves o'bread, that was taken out from the Sybylline Oracle storys. The c.e. writes "In form the pagan,xtian and jewish oracles are alike. They all purport to be the work of the sibyl..." and then later it inscribes "..,and others as being largely interpolated by a xtain." While it may be thought by some the c.e. was surely and clearly written to be supportive of that group of people, a clear thinking person ought to see just the efforts by some to do something, before his death. To 'know' that one is dead forever, does not give that "forever" dead, any meaning. - 15:34:12 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Of that dog barking, seemingly without end, wonder ranges from, is it hungry? Is it thirsty? Is it in a pen and want out? Is its' leash too tight or short? Does it want to go for a walk? Or, is it just lonely? - 16:48:47 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT. Your analogy of censorship and the whopper is puzzling, to say the least. Burger King features the Whopper. Why would it be censorship to order a whopper there? - 17:19:58 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:rOB. I thought 'jesus freaks' were the worst but that was before I met up with 'tree freaks'. It seems as though you have been imbibing some exotic plant brew. Do you have some sort of holy communion drinking fermented tree sap? - 17:27:54 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:DAVID. Since you are so knowledgable about jesus I am sure you can answer some questions about him. Please tell me about his genes, his chromosones and his DNA. - 17:34:44 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->we always accuse theists of not listening to reason, or not looking at the non-existence of a god objectively. We malign them for only seeing what they want to see. Well, I am opening myself up for lots of insults now, but some of us are treating rOB the same way, and it bugs me because I am very interested in what he has to say. I am a tree hugger too, although I do not believe in the magic in the forests that he does. I don't think it harms us by learning about other people's beliefs, and then deciding what we want to believe. - 18:18:01 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: The rOB does what I or anyone else could do, that is to isolate oneself into idiocy. This, is when one concerns oneself with something that only oneself alone knows. Of rOB's posts, what is it that he/she means to communicate? I cannot determine what that individual is up to or means to say for themself. That view brought about my neighborhood dog thing. If rOB's conduct was comprehensible communication would happen. I got no idea what the f'rOB is up to. - 18:43:23 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>>I agree. I find what roB has to say interesting. I think it is all a delusion, but some are worse than others. - 18:45:55 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

RON....: Wow, have I had a bitchin last 4 weeks or what? Sorry to be gone so long. JAMES mentioned you guys were becoming impatient and waiting for my return. Catch the latest UFO news? Interesting...missed by only a few months. Anyway, I'm working on my letter and should have it ready soon. Ex-wife continues to be a child, work is work, my daughter was with me last week - we had a blast. Finally saw my son last week, he's beautiful and he hugged me for 10 minutes. I'm actually proud to say I'm having no problem finding women for dates, they are finding me. I love life. If only I had a war to win ....I've missed you all. - 19:14:21 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I agree, and rOB knows my frustration with not being able to discern what he is saying. Is that a lack of communication skills on his part, or is it me just missing something? However, I do not think belligerence either from myself or anyone else will help the learning process. - 19:14:49 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN...how's Mrs. Steven doing? Not much time now.... - 19:17:19 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I have no problem with listening to reason but really, what is reasonable about the druid religion. Not only that rOB has failed to fill us in on exactly just what it is he believes opting instead to write a whole lot of gibberish. I think we all would like to hear what he believes and what prompts him to indulge in those beliefs, for example, evidence for such beliefs. - 19:28:29 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:RON!!!! Good to hear everything is going super! - 19:35:49 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- I agree with you concerning David. It sounds to me that David leans toward a belief in satan, do you get the same impression? - 19:38:15 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:RON- What is this about aliens? Do you mean the opening up of some of the x-files? - 19:46:57 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: It is good to read that RON ain't tryin'to commit any acts of immaculation. Still on the c.e. thing, informed the religionuts in this office that according to it- c.e., the immaculate conception thing concerns mary first and mostly. Then it concerns jc. They- the nuts, started grabbin'their chests and tellin' me, 'say it isn't so'. The writers- of whenever, of those articles must have been the who was first referred to by the term "literary license", they go for it, no hlds barred. - 20:13:17 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:DAVID. While you're at it getting the data on Jesus' DNA, x and /or y chromosomes and so on, you might as well check out Satan. You could then show how their DNA compares with a chimp's. If you put a little effort into it you could probably wind up with a Master;s degree. - 22:55:54 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:Hope all you neighbours south of the border have a great long weekend! And the ROCKETS red glare, the BOMBS bursting in air..... - 23:14:11 on 2 Jul 98 GMT

James---->Joette...:Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave. For the home of the BRAVE and the land of the FREE. - 14:27:34 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

James--->Joette...:Actually that is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE. - 14:31:40 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JAMES- Now that was really neat! - 15:19:27 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->JAMES..betcha I know your anthem better than you do, thanks to baseball. Now, let's hear you do ours... - 16:36:54 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam OH, BROTHER!:™™™™™™™ O Canada, our frozen tundra land, six feet of snow, the vistas sure are grand! We wait for months for medical care, and often die en route. And the Frenchies want an independent state, let's give Quebec the boot! Goddamn, it's cold, and I'm all out of beer, O Canada please get me out of here! O Canada please get me OUT OF HERE!!! Play ball, eh? - 18:10:46 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ADAM--I look forward to seeing you cross the border at Buffalo with skiis on your car in the middle of July then. - 18:21:37 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam HUH?:You're Peter? ********* You lost me, dude. If you're talking about U.S. tourists, I don't ski. I have been to Montreal twice, though, and when I was in college in northern Maine in '84-85, we made a few trips into New Bruswique, mainly to get Bradors. - 19:18:10 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Joette..taking her sled dogs out for some exercise in this frigid climate...:-->ADAM..no Independence for you today? - 19:29:25 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam FRIDAY, NOT FREEDAY ßßßßßßß :Say it ain't snow, Jo (and Jays say hello to BoJo) ßßßßß I am in the office to get some editing done on NetLet, my Internet Newsletter. E-mail your address again and I'll send out the last couple of copies if you want some garish-looking reading (remind me of what the most recent issue I sent you was). What da dealio with the "&gt" on your posts. Is it some reference to Georgia Tech, one of my many alma maters? Anyway, the only person here when I came in was fellow Mets fan Bob, the NLJ Torts reporter, and now he's gone. So the newsroom TV has Copa del Mundial on with the volume up. The Fucking French cost me $5 to the Associate Art Director (actually, it was that damned spaghetti-eater who hit the crossbar on the last penalty shot). I'm hopeful of winning it back in the Brasil-Denmark game (I have Brasil). Is anyone looking forward to tomorrow's Nazi bowl (Germany-Croatia)? - 19:52:26 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..it must have killed you to fork over that $5. I don't know what you are talking about with the "&gt" reference. - 21:03:57 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..only here cause I'm stuck here:ADAM-HA! HA! That was good! You should have included our worthless dollar somewhere in that little ditty. - 21:10:40 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam What $5???:$$$$$ Joette: on my screen, all your posts, and only yours, have two dashes, an ampersand, and the letters "gt" after the colon that follows the addressee's name. I figure it's some sort of symbol that's not translating properly into HTML. Of course, I won back the money on Brasil. At any rate, I'm not the one who appears to have problems forking over gambling debts, am I. Perhaps people who live in grass houses shouldn't get stoned. - 21:19:23 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam Here We Oh! Again:Marlene's Newfoundverse ******* O Canada, we sing for thee this tune. We can't import, because of the falling loon! Our trade surplus with the U.S.A. has grown in leaps and bounds, all because the coin of Canada, is falling to the ground. God help us now—we can't go overseas, for Canada's cash can't buy a can of peas. So Canada, we'll stay at home and freeze! - 21:29:30 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Joette Ripley:-->ADAM...&gt&gt&gt&gt&gt&gt&gt Must be some sort of gama rays or something. Believe it or not, it's in the mail! - 22:00:59 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

Adam CAIO-DER, TAKE A POWDER:££££££££ SEE Y'ALL MONDAY. TIME to get DRUNK! - 22:09:29 on 3 Jul 98 GMT

David:Marlene: I do not lean to a belief in Satan. My point is that if even if there was a god, and I no that there is not, then I still would not worship him from what I had read in the dam bible or from what I have seen in the real world. I have studied science and history and the bible, and the bible is a joke. - 1:12:24 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David :PapaSam: what is your point. - 1:13:41 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David: :PapaSam: what is your point. - 1:14:06 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David: :PapaSam: what is your point. - 1:14:28 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam, what is your point ?????? - 1:16:04 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam: I already have a master's degree... - 1:20:58 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David:PapaSam: are you a priest or rabi or maybe the pope? lol - 1:23:16 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam: ck DNA... 1st the bones of Jesus were rumored to be found at Masada. and keep secret because it would ruin things for people like you. 2nd the chimp would be to close for you to handle it. and 3rd I would just ck your dna because satan dose not exist anywhere except in you mind. - 2:06:45 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::HAPPY 4TH OF JULY !!! - 2:09:57 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:DAVID..you might not know how to read old posts, so I am reposting a question that I asked of you the other day "DAVID..this is the first time I have heard someone declare unequivocally the dates of Jesus' birth and death. Aside from your early bible reference, what other sources do you cite? - 21:38:01 on 1 Jul 98 GMT". Would appreciate any information you have. - 2:41:36 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:DAVID- I apologize, one never knows on this discussion what someone's intentions are. Many post here that they are atheists but then turn around and praise the glories of Baal or some other deity other than the "god" of the xtians, jews and muslims. Thing is, who's to say that such a person as jesus even lived. He could have been the "main man" in the xtian myth just as Jack of Jack in the Beanstalk is of modern day fairytales. Each story serves (or tries to) teach a lesson in morals, in turn an attempt at control. - 4:59:07 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David: :Joette: I found out thet Jesus birth was in Aug. from several bible scholarship books that anyone can get and read from any library. His death was found in some Roman chronicles that I studied way back when I was still in college. Please note that I do not ck the site every day so I missed you question the first time around. P.S. I am sure that you are aware that it is well know that Jesus was not born in the month of Dec. Also the actual day I don't recall except from the book I mentioned. - 5:21:42 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:DAVID. I know my DNA is 98.4% similar to a chimp's. Since I know there "ain't no such animals" as jesus and satan my question was purely rhetorical and my intention was humorous.The reason i addressed it to you was because you brought satan into the mix. No offense intended. Maybe I should have sent itto the pope------. - 5:34:19 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David:Marlene: Jesus actualy did live. He was a student of John the baptist ( and they were cousins ). Jesus left John and led a attempted coup of the Roman garrison in Palestine which failed. He was hunted down by the Romans for this and placed on a stake not a cross. Most of the good stories of him traveiling from place to place are realy the deeds of Mitherus a prophet who died 50 years before Jesus birth. I looked for the truth and I found it. The truth is out there but most people don't look. As you know most people who say that they believe in the bible don't have the slightest idea of what is written in it. Let alone the fact that most of the bible stories come right out from older mythology. And look this one up. the new testament was not written by the apostles but rather by a group of people 250 years after Jesus death. It was they who made him into martyr and it was the women who were in charge of the ceremonies not men. I would not be a true athist if I did not studie the bible to know that it was junk. - 5:51:52 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam: I only caught half of your message to me from the other day so I really wasn't sure where you were coming from. It did catch my interest. Feel free to question me anytime. - 5:57:54 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::P.S. the entire reason for Jesus was not to build what evolved into christianity. but simply this. To unite the people together by religion to rid themself of the Roman Empire. - 6:25:45 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:For the 'weeded' meander and in curved flumes is an isometric view, the amount of superelevation is proportional to v(squared)w/,GRm. At the crossover point of inflection bend, the cross-sectional shape is not completely symmetrical but at the shallaw place it is slightly deeper. The velocity in a meander crossover is not symmetrically distributed. Agreed measurements in a curved flume of rectangular cross section also show that the maximum point velocity in a bend occurs not at but below the water surface. As for my worded postings, they were 'driving moment=resisting moment, W1X1=W2X2 + srl,' or they were eQUILIBRIUM of forces maintaing a slope subject to sliding. Steep slopes are maintained by 'scars' resulting from slides in both tropical and nival regions... In areas of permafrost, soilfluction lobes are showed on a hillslope. A postulated result has been termed cryoplanation (of polygon metioned earlier), meaning the planation of the landscape through the action of frost. 'Creep', however, is by no means confined to regions of frost. Photos not of the ten commandment kind show tombstones and telephone poles leaning upslope as the soil in which they are lodged creeps downslope. Quantiative observations of regional distribution are usually lacking, but the rounded forms, displaced headstones, and leaninmg fences throughout much of the world suggest that creep is prelevant in"virtually" all regions. Penck believed that even in forest regions creeping slow movement takes place through the network of tree roots; noted effects were from Schumm but observations are rare...We know from the theory of surfaces that curvature is an invariant with respect to any arbitrary Gaussian coordinate changes and that it may be determined from the surfaces of say hexagon wires. It is a differential expression of the second order. Invariants of exact analogous way may be found for the four-dimensional world which are generalizations of the curvature invariant of the theory of surfaces. A considered procedure of all geodetic world lines which touch a two-dimensional surface of the four-dimensional world in a point say P. Curved measures are invariants of three-dimensional space that are analogous to survace curvature. We say of space-time regions in which they differ from zero that they are curved of scars. A resulted space-time continuum of curved non -eUCLIDEAN one must set back his intuition. For the intuition must give way to the 'judgement' based on the integration of all our knowledge. - 11:11:36 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->rOB...now female? - 12:24:51 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...is it a high horse, or a horse high that you are on? It is all well and good that you read books, but protocol would have you telling us what books you are citing. Yes, we have all studied the Bible, and other writings, and many of us are also college educated, but I still maintain in my research I have never seen the actual dates for Jesus' birth and death stated. Therefore, I ask, exactly what books did you find this information contained therein? - 12:27:49 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:DAVID- Yes, I ask the same question as Joette. What books are you basing all this on. The mormons state it as fact that ole jesus visited America too. That doesn't mean that he exsisted or made the visit. - 14:44:30 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::A HIGH HOIRSE: I have already told you where I found some of the answers that I accured in my life. I did not just read some books but everything that I could get my hands on, not just of religious reference but also science, history, archaeology, biology, ect. And then did a very in depth cross reference of them all to find out what was passable and what was just tripe. There is no magic books to show you. Each book alone is of no conclusive ends but rather a small part of the whole. I am not Rush Limborg, I am not here to tell what to believe but rather to offer to you for acceptance or rejection, what I have acquired over several years of studie. Don't take my words for it. Go out and find this infomation on your own. For you can only be true to thyself. I have been challenged by some very high educated people and when they investigated what I had told them, they came back and agreed with that infomation. I do not mean to sound like I am on a high horse. But I know this info to be true. Like I said, don't follow what I say, go out and find it yourself. Bottom line is that I do not have the time to write down what part came from which part of the hundreds of books that I compiled many many years ago. Believe this or not, I do not speak of religion in my everyday life. Just when I go to this web site. Sorry if any of this offends you. It was not meant to. - 16:18:33 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Pam-----> Badb- a series of lessons and rebirth versed in Aradach Fionn, while in reincarnation transmigrating:In the comfortably comprehensible, the Druids make historical people like the Romans and Crusaders, and to attribute Stonehedge to them makes a sort of sense, as a welcome cliche' grapsed because it avoids the necessity of thought. You have the 'objective' and the 'imagined' Druid. Caesar expressed the literal personal immortality, ab aliis...transire ad alios. For Diogenes Laertius attributes a druid of 'riddles and dark sayings'. The magic"k" charms of the Druid may well be associated with a genuine empirical knowledge but fitted in the vague attributions of magic"k" echoed by more than one sourced Buccinum. As romantic adornments, we are hackneyed figuers in minor verse and prose. Sir Richard Colt Hoare of Stourhead was one of the first great field archaeologists amd his epigraph speaks from facts, not theory, but he could not resist printing a poem... A life lived in passion-variety with over and over reincarnation is the life of the Druid. Yes, Joette honestly I am a female and I am 25 years old (a labeled name of Pam). Marlene, no record 'exist' that say we believed in duality in concepts of good and evil. The Druids have no "need" for judgemental ethics of the said Christian. We are still being slandered today by them and others, rememeber the Halloween movie ref. in the URL REHASH. The past rehash was not labeled gibberish. A vast prominent females' are to be found in myth of eQUALITY as Caesar said it took around 20 years of "my" 25. Different Druids observe strict avoidance of commitment writng or myths of wands of wood. Connecting as evidence of Morrigu, she has perched on the web site as crow. Intuiton inside you has voiced the observed as was the whipping of the horses for Roman crowds... It was a learning experience for the 5 months or so; it is in relation to eating dog flesh for an altered state and being alone in beehive huts of bewitching Fae enchantment. Objectively I was only keeping "the Druid". I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN BLAME ME FOR THAT, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM. As Rob of corny colored rose would jest:"his geas are not broken in tempermental cat". Therefore, my next post (HONESTLY) will be my last for the magic"k" remains in equal balance of free association. - 16:31:44 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::P.S. I am really not on a high horse but you might say that I am tendentious. - 16:36:41 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

David::Pam: Although we have never conversed, I just wanted to say that reading your post were very intriguing, hopefully you will be back again. - 16:50:59 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:Pam. First of all, you left off the first letter of your name. It should be Spam. Obviously you haven't done enough research. You failed to mention the Shlumpenheimer effect, you neglected the squarishness of the circular computative and you never even touched upon the gravitational duplicativosity of the cubistical parameters. In other words you are a fraud. I get the impression you are a giggling parochial school girl showing off your "precocity" to your fellow students by spamming the atheist web site with gibberish. Do you get extra credit from the sisters? - 17:05:19 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Pam :That recipient reaction is the marvel of synchronousness... Thank you David for I know you have been here in observation as well. I realize your sight as an "atheist". The creep is gone for it is too binding in this machine realm. Bright Blessings! This is my last posting-??? in triad! As Ayn Rand stated, "Consciousness, as a state of awareness, is not a passive state, but an active process that consists of two essentials: differentiation and intergration". I have observed this evidence and so has David for many months too. The Magic"k" of the Druid tongues at the site of Uisnech is lurking in creep of Bill's Somhlth paradox. Good-bye Bill, I know you are lurking... The recursion clause for truth functions are transparent... True(neg x)=,=,=~True x, True(conj xy) =,=,=. True x. True y. THE INTIAL CLAUSES ARE NOW THE SERIOUS PART: THE DEFINITION OF TRUTH FOR ATOMIC SENTENCES DEVOID OF VARIABLES! - 17:37:51 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->little "r" Rob...your complexity knows no boundaries does it? Being of cynical nature, I tend to think that you and David are the same person. David's lack of spelling skills do not speak to me of a person holding a Master's Degree in anything. It is though the mistakes are intentional to cover up any similarity between you and he. The back slapping and congratulatory air of the posts may also be evidence of this finding. However, I still take exception to David's lack of answers, something you also share, so I shall now address him in the what, 39th person? - 17:43:55 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...you are avoiding the question. If you are so learned, you must know off the top of your head which books someone should read to obtain the information you are giving us. Just as we seek evidence of a god existing, we know seek evidence that you are above board. Tell me what books you found the dates of Jesus' death and birth. (Carl of this page is probably the best read person in North America, and he has yet to tell us these dates, and even he doesn't know for sure what "the truth" is). You have made some strong statements, so put your books where your mouth is. - 17:47:27 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of ATHEISTS who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they ATHEISTS are without excuse. For even though ATHEISTS know God, they do not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they have become futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart are darkened. Professing to be wise, they are fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God has given ATHEISTS over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies will be dishonored among them. For they exchange the truth of God for a lie, and worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God has given them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as ATHEIS do not see fit to acknowledge God, God has given them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although ATHEISTS know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. - 19:36:33 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

;):-->RTL..fuck off and die. - 19:54:42 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I tend to agree. Even if Pam is a separate entity from rOB they still are spewing crappy supernatural gibberish. David, as you say, has lots to say but nothing to back it up. Anyone who feels such a need to prove an exsistence of something will obviously present the evidence so required. He's either reluctant or just hasn't got it. BTW PAM---Maybe a druid chat page is more comfortable for delusional companionship. - 20:56:22 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:RTL- ditto the above - 20:57:41 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Rob ("The dud looks like a lady"):Hey! No creep's gonna disturb my corniche... bloody slopeheads ;) - 22:27:11 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette...:-->MARLENE..I do not believe that David is reluctant to share his knowledge. I believe it is a case of blowhardness. Isn't amazing how not one book title or author is mentioned in any of his posts? And isn't amazing that many scholars have studied religion, and can not state 100% that Jesus even existed, but suddenly David knows for sure that he did, and David knows precisely what his agenda was. Although he wants to keep insisting that he is a "true atheist", his belief system is no different than that of an xtian. And DAVID, if this offends, so be it. Let's see some of that scholarly stuff. - 23:00:28 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:ROB!!!! You being a racist????? - 23:04:47 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Exactly. Why don't these people explain themselves more clearly???? - 23:07:12 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T LEE--You are truly an amazing creature. You aren't saying anything new here, and I have addressed forthrightly every assertion you are making here. I have exposed them all inasfar as they are fraught from A to Z with logical and ethical flaws. But in light of your post here it is obvious you are not in the least interested in any discourse whatsoever. The pattern which is becoming aparrent here with your posts is you say "A", to which is addressed, dissected, shot down, whatever, which I'll call "B" Then instead of addressing what is said in "B" --which would be the next step in any comprensible discussion, you simply ignore it and repeat "A" again. Well, I for one am not interested in repeating B once again only if you retort with "A" once again, and so on and so on. It's not the contents so much of your posts which prompts frustration, anger and eventually cursing--it's the presentation and the pointless pattern which you insist perpetuating, which amount to nohing more than repeating the same insults and the utter pointlessness of your apparent motives here. I just cannot see what purpose ,or what motivates you to continue to post. - 23:34:42 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB...would that be a corniche hen, you chicken? What cock and bull are you crowing here? Seems pretty fowl. - 23:42:53 on 4 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. The wrath of your god has the power of an ant's fart. An hour spent in making love is better than a lifetime spent in prayer. The time you spend on your commputer praising your 'god' would be put to better use cleaning litter from the streets. Go back to your holy roller site where you can commune with your fellow believers and try to outdo each other praising your mutual delusion. - 5:18:48 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Averaged values for multiplets: 1- 4 A4 --- Species Atom or ion 6- 37 A32 --- Transition Transition 40- 46 A7 --- Multiplet Multiplet 48- 56 F9.4 Angs lambda Vacuum wavelength 58- 72 F15.6 cm^-1 E_i Energy of lower level 74- 88 F15.6 cm^-1 E_k Energy of upper level 90- 91 I2 --- g_i Lower level statistical weight 93- 94 I2 --- g_k Upper level statistical weight 96-103 E8.2 s^-1 A_ik Transition probability 105-112 E8.2 --- f_ik Oscillator strength 114-115 I2 --- n Number of lines in the multiplet Values for individual lines: 48- 56 F9.4 Angs lambda Vacuum wavelength 58- 72 F15.6 cm^-1 E_i Energy of lower level 74- 88 F15.6 cm^-1 E_k Energy of upper level 90- 91 I2 --- g_i Lower level statistical weight 93- 94 I2 --- g_k Upper level statistical weight 96-103 E8.2 s^-1 A_ik Transition probability 105-112 E8.2 --- f_ik Oscillator strength --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If experimental energy of an upper level is unknown, wavelength and energy of the upper level are given as 0.0. For FeI: if a multiplet averaged transition probability and oscillator strength are unknown, they are given as 0.0. The sentences are atomic in the sense of containing no further sentences; they may contain complex terms. - 7:47:00 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Pam --> my last posting done in '3':'O' might be the sole simple term, and the grammatical construction might be application of the successor accent. Then the terms are numerals 'O', 'O'', 'O''', etc. The primitive predicates might be the triadic predicates here 'E' and 'II' of sum and product.*** Exyz=_.x=y+z, IIxyz=_.x=yz. *** Each atomic sentence consists of'E' or 'II' followed by 3 numerals. Truth functions and substitutional quantification complete the 'language'- a redundant language of elementary number theory. We can define truth directly for the atomic sentences of this language. Slight recursion clauses only show itself... No longer is there any appeal to sequences of objects, of course, nor to objective reference at all; for quantification here is reconstrued in terms of" SUBSTITUTION OF SAY EXPRESSIONS THAT 'NEED' NOT NAME ANYTHING". Afterall, it is logical supernatural gibberish 'so restrictively labeled'. - 9:13:44 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Oh, I am sorry I forgot in all this supernatural jargon of the months. My name is Pam not David!!! You see me now a veteran of millions of psychic wars and I'm young enough and old enough to see that all the scars are on the inside*** But I would not say that this is victory*** Reveal to me, reveal to me , reveal to me her tongue of the unknown*** a trinity acts a mineral fire, it's a telepath of flaming red wonder. For we are both as beautiful as the written foot. Good-bye!!! - 9:48:17 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->WRITTEN foot? Let's see, Steve Martin has HAPPY feet, on Seinfeld they have JIMMY feet, and Christy Brown has to do everything with his LEFT foot. Is there an idea for yet another show about a WRITTEN foot now? The thrill of victory, the agony of defeet. - 13:35:10 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM...and your name is also rOB, Skippy Skip, Lips in the Hills, flighty and anonymous to mention but a few. You haven't convinced me you aren't also David. - 13:37:16 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

GOOD MORNING CLASS>>>>Notice the last post of ROBERT T. LEE. let's pretend to place that post in a laboratory setting to observe the effects off it. Notice the nature of the things stated. They have to be either truth or lies. But note carefully the nature of the responses to that post by various so-called "educated" atheist. The first (by whomever) was both immoral and murderous. The second by "Marlene" is the same. Now, when we note the nature of the things Mr. Lee stated, we find that what he stated is quite true. Because we see immorality, murder, malice, unlovingness, unmercifulness and etc in the first two responses. But notice PapaSam's response: It is quite heathenistic, satanic and blasphemous. Notice, Mr. Lee stated that atheists are insolent, arrogant, unloving and etc. We see all those and more in PapaSam's response. Again, proving what Mr. Lee said about atheists. Now, note carefully "Peter's" response. Although he does not go into an epileptic fit like PapaSam, yet the character of his response proves Mr. Lee to be right. Notice that Mr. Lee also stated that atheists are filled with deceit, are without understanding and etc. We see all that in Peter's response. There is also a silent response from all the rest of the atheist, which is a major characteristic of all atheists, is that they see the truth of Mr. Lee's post but not one of them will admit the truth thereof. Class, you have just seen a demonstration of the disease of atheism an undesirable disease you should desire to avoid at all costs. Oh, by the way, please carefully note from henceforth that the atheists will continually prove the Bible to be right by their heathen responses. Class adjourned. - 14:01:39 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->TEACHER...it is unsupported information such as we now have the opportunity to witness that causes clear thinking individuals to leave school. BTW, religion doesn't belong in the classroom. - 14:17:00 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

-->put that in your constitution and smoke it - 14:18:17 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--TEACHER---I guess you haven't been here from the beginning. As you may have read in my last post it wasn't so much the content, but the motives showm by RTL that are receiving these less than complimentary responses. I have been as diplomaticas possible with RTL from thre beginning, but he entered here making sweeping opinions of theists, and paintingbthemall with the same brush, which is an act of prejudice, bigotry ( the fallacy of composition ) I have addressed him directly on the immoral nature of these attacks ( which would not be too cognizant for a person who feeld their beliefs are the be all and end all of upstanding morality ) RTL--isn't interested in discussion at all, as he has yet to engage any with me at all, regardless of how many times I have addresses his posts. His findings are wildly unfounded, but he isn't interested at all in considering any counter arguments. RTL has shown no signs of being a rational person at all--many of us have become frustrated by his actions, and many of us have been offended by his unwarranted insults. - 16:38:43 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:TEACHER---To clarify, I certainly would not come into a foum where most of the participants embraced beliefs different than mine and begin to degrade, insult, demean and perpetuate every personal verbal attack imaginable just because the do not believe what I do. I could make assessments on each of their individual actions ( as I have done with RTL ) but only a bigot would do as RTL did in here. Therefore, I am qualified to say--judging only by his actios--that he is a bigot. - 16:43:22 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David:JOETTE: Anyone who judges knowledge only based upon it's reference material is a pee-wit. You can not make wise decisions based upon any one book be it religious, science or comic book. I have told your were to go to start reading the books, perhaps your are to arrogant to pay attention to what you do not choose to see or do. Carl is probably a very learned man. But did he actually spend many years of his life going out and finding the infomation which I did find. You must transcend this wall of ignorance and go out and learn for yourself. Most of this info. I learned over 20 years ago. And you think that I can remember the names of literally houndreds of books that I cross-ref. Any forensic religious professor should know that Jusus uas born in Aug. One last thing for ref. read the entire works of Joseph Campbell that should be a good place to begin if you truely want to understand, but I don't believe that you want to. If fact I believe that I am just wasting words. And so also just wasting time. - 16:53:00 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:I did not post as the nameless slopehead, RTL, any other judger. The Druids were again oppressed by the likes of these judemental people. I did not want to leave on a sour note, for I came here as the eQUILIBRIUM of magical balance. I am being honest here now, but the tress do not discriminate only humans do. I never posted as David either, for my real name is Pam--> I am female just like you Joette . Like I mentioned earlier, I am a Druid (that is what I AM); I do not think you can fault me on my druidic actions here either. Being that they are very odd, I am sorry on this account. I did not post as that judgemental teacher either, for Druids seek balance in free association. I am being "honest" here . Please believe me and bright blessings from a misunderstood Druid. Be like GRANT , for he has done away with the pride of mantle. Please can't you 'SEE' the murmurs in the background. Good-bye and bright blessings.*** Along the axis world*** the Dragon Lady sleeps** To the rhyme of the, of the, of the star clock*** Seven sleepers, sages, seven ladders to the, to the unknown*** Seven stars had Ursa Minor*** Written footed tables turning, turning*** And the rain maker while the seven visors all went a drumming*** They did dance*** Games after death, night dances around in alchemy***Salute the four quarters before I leave your eyes*** Twined in the mirror***The invisible comes, end me adoration*** Before I leave your eyes*** World in the mirror, waters of amnesia come*** Do we know, do we know*** The court of some others Eve*** Beneath the polar mountain, rose cross and crosser there*** Symbols of the swan*** AERIAL RACES IN THE ROTATION OVER THE MAGICAL CASEMENT***Visions of a parallel world*** Yes we dance in alchemy - 17:32:33 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:DAVID. You stated you have a Master's degree. What subject was it on and what university granted it? The poor quality of your grammar and your spelling let alone the contents of your postings cast doubt on the credibility of your claim. You also imply, in other posts, that you have acquired your so called knowledge by reading many books. While you can't pinpoint the various books because of their quantity, you should have no problem giving the information on yoour degree. - 17:37:24 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--DAVID--Evidentlty the challenge of your resources has ruffled your feathers, but to respond with personal attacks as some type of retalitort measure to somehow show your reactions to these challenges, doesn't really shed too much of a light of credibility in your direction. In anyone's pursuit to offer some insight, they will be met by challenges. Although these challenges may seem unfounded--some eplanation in an attempt to clarify is all that would be sufficient--insults can only result in creating an unpleasant and distracting atmosphere--not to mention you not deserving too much respect--and I don't think this is what you want. - 17:52:30 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:TEACHER. Now why do I get the impression that it is a pseudonym for our ROBERT T LEE? Self praise is no recommendation. Be careful patting yourself on the back. You may strain your arm. I find it amusing that a so called "omnipotent and omniscient god" who created the universe with its billions of galaxies down to the smallest sub- atomic particle, and all its life forms from the mighty dinosaurs to the most minute microscopic forms finds it necessary to pick you to defend him against the attacks of a piddling human atheist like me. With his unlimited power he should have no problem handling me. He could have one of his angels transport me to vatican and spank me with a paddle in front of the pope, in front of TV cameras. Now that would really scare the other atheists into shutting up, besides giving me a sore ass. So, until that happpens, I'll just continue to blaspheme the shit out of him, and, as the old heathenistic saying goes, "IF HE DON'T LIKE IT HE CAN LUMP IT." And so can you. - 17:55:32 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::JOETTE: I want to try and make one point to you. In the old days the fables of the bible were for example. When it was said that someone had lived for 600 years AND ext. then he was a man of many accomplishments but if a man lived 600 years without the AND, he wasted his entire life. If Jesus had succeeded in overthrowing the Roman Empire he would have gone down into the history books as a great military genius. But he failed. 250 years later John the Baptist would have been choosen as the one to call the son of god but because they said that John was beheaded ( which he was not ) they could not use him as the savior. ( to say that someone was beheaded was like calling a man a rapist in todays society and guilty or not his reputation was forever ruined ). So Jesus becomes the chosen one to be the son of god. My point is this. There is a lot of proof in the existence of a man named Jesus who let a rebellion ( not miracles ). So how can you expect people to believe you when you say that there is no god, when you discredits yourself and other Atheist by not knowing all the facts. If I told you the name of only one book to read, religious people could redicule the hell out of you. But then again you don't believe anything I say. I really must stop wasting my time. - 17:59:55 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Please "believe me", good-bye at last in the invisible!!! For I can not stay, else my geas of magic"k" will break like glass. I hope we finally respect each other, even with out respect to somone's religious beliefs. - 18:02:33 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::Peter: Thank you and you are right. I was not the one who started the condescending atmosphere rhetoric. But I just don't know what to say to her. A lifetime of learning can not be cast away for lack of a name of a book. To try to summerise it up in any one book would be irresponsible on my part which would led to a loss of creditability. I have found that this is a very tender subject and no one part stands true alone. - 18:10:45 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam: My spelling is a very personal subject which you have trodden upon. It dates back to a time when the nuns in school used to give me an 0 for cheating when if fact I was not. - 18:16:07 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::It is a shame when spelling and books overrule reason and integrity so I shall bid you farewell. Until a time which I think to read your posting again. My intentions were not to offend anyone but I guess that is what has happened. Goodbye. - 18:23:03 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...you don't know what to say to me?????? Why not just give the names of some books??? You have mentioned one author, and I will read his writings. Was that so difficult? If you were to actually read what is written here, you may notice that we do discuss authors and books. We prefer to share our findings and opinions. Is that a difficult concept for you to embrace? Would you like the names of books and their authors from us, so that you can continue your research, or have you read everything ever written, and as a result all books are the same, with no indentifiable writer or text??? Your attitude reminds of a silly scenario such as you wanting to buy a house, but the builder says, "You know where the bricks are, so you build it yourself, and I'll just sit and watch you flounder". You are a charletan, and you have been exposed. - 18:25:43 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...you are a chickenshit. And so are you rOB! - 18:26:55 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT (wherever you are)...and you thought I was grouchy LAST week? Lol! - 18:28:02 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Pam: Joette... I have made friendships here unlike David. I would really like to stay here , but it will break my Druidic tradition ( the magical eQUILIBRIUM and such). I respect you and the others who want to learn in the Rand way. I am sure you can understand this, and I will miss all here with a tear in her optics! Please Carl read "Lord of the Flies", civilization just masks the savage. The rational and the irrational were shown together in the murmurs. Again , I apologize for my odd behavior. - 18:53:27 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::PapaSam: I thought that I would answer your question out of commom courtesy. You said that if I would answer your dna question then I would have a Masters Degree, so I responded to the question and so won the degree you so jokingly offered. If you really want to know I have a B.S. from U.R.I. - 19:05:25 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::Joette: I hope that everyone is not as pretense as you. I was sincerely trying to help you to understand. The first thing which I told you was to go to the library and research some bible scholarship books. I also asked you to read the Roman Chronicles. But you would rather attack me instead of paying attention to what I wrote to you. So history once more repeats itself once again and a person who is trying to help is made to look the fool. - 19:16:56 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::Goodbye, if I can keep myself away... - 19:20:01 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...if that is your idea of help, then I wouldn't be calling you up when I need it. First you say you have a Master's Degree, now suddenly you have a B.S. I won't challenge that, because I've seen tons of it since you started posting here. If you are made to look like a fool, then it is of your own doing. You have shown that on the internet, anyone can be anything, but it doesn't last long if someone comes along to break the bubble. I am not usually this much of a curmudgeon (okay, yes I am), but if you were to offer some proof as to where you come up with you tell us are solid facts, then I would be the first to apologize for the skepticism I have directed your way. - 19:57:58 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM, rOB, LITH etc...I have said before, I would like to learn more about your belief system, but I am obviously to thick to get it (just call me a pea-wit), but even so, I read your posts carefully, and if you don't come back, you will be missed. I do respect your belief system, even if it is dissimilar to my own. - 20:01:11 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID...I don't see anything here about Joseph Campbell being a biblical scholar, although he may be interesting to read. - 20:07:14 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID..I will no longer badger you. This URL says in a nutshell what Joseph Cambpell is all about. And in all the websites dedicated to earning his estate money, not once is it mentioned that he is a biblical scholar. I apologize to all for this personal feeding frenzy. - 20:15:35 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve:The last time I came to this site It was full of football junk. Now I see that you have united together to attack David. David presents places and titles of reference. I see no reason for you all to attack him so. And to question his education as if it is any of your business. I am a poor speller myself, are you also going to attack me. You are so occupied trying to put down David that you are not reading what he wrote. If you don't know who J. Campbell is, maybe David was right. - 20:34:43 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::Joette: J. Campbell writes about religion under mythology and was probably the best in his field. He gave lectures of religion at universities and science emporiums all across the world. That all which I have to say. I don't want to get involved in this argument. - 20:51:29 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE...nor do I want you to become in any argument. I will read Joseph Campbell, but what I have been able to ascertain is that he writes mostly fictional work (just like the bible) and does not make claims that he cannot support (such as the birth and death dates of Jesus). Aside from his helping with New York's "Who's Who", can you point out any of his work that states as scientific fact all about Jesus? - 21:00:52 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve:Joette: Joseph Campbell's nonfictional works including a entire series on religion. If you look in the series of occidental mythology I believe that he dose make the statement such as the birth and death dates of Jesus including the one called The Masks of God. But you are dragging me into this argument, and you might just find out that I do tend to agree with David from the little that I have seen of what he wrote. I do not claim to know the dates as did David. But I do agree that it was not in December. According to the climate in that part of the world it was most likely August. Maybe you should read the Passover plot and the dead sea scrolls. David was right about another thing. It will take a lot of reading, perhaps we can continue this conservation another day after you have done some reading. thankyou. - 22:30:54 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve:Joette: your infomation on J.Campbell would appear to be misleading if not totaly wrong.. Could you tell me the name of some books that you got this infomation from. I am beginning to understand David's point. - 22:37:02 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..as you know, until today, I was not familiar with Joseph Campbell, so I have posted some URL's here on this page, provided by the Joseph Campbell Foundation. I should think they would know a bit about him, wouldn't you? Have you yourself read the Dead Sea Scrolls? - 22:55:15 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

David::Steve: thank you very much but you do not need to fight my battles for me. Jolette is like a perfect ex-wife. I don't care if jesus lived or not but I wanted to tell the truth and she just keeps pushing and pushing. Where is her proof that jesus did not exist, whatever I say is attacked and what ever she says is God's will. I just wanted to stop by and see if people are still talking about me. Thanks again. Did you know that you can get video tapes on J.C. lectures. I might not be around again, Joette has made any of my thoughts the same as censored. - 23:21:06 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::David: yes I do agree with you. And it is to bad that you feel you can not express your thoughts anymore. But I am not fighting your battles for you. So there is no need to thank me. I am expressing my own beliefs. I tried to make my point to Joette by asking her about what book's she had read, but it went right over her head. Now, as I have told to Joette, please do not get me involved again. thank you. - 23:29:58 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID..I find it amusing how you have avoided any questions by pretending to have your feelings hurt. Just like the nun who accused you of cheating, even though you didn't. Mr. Persecution Complex himself. I have not given my opinion as to whether Jesus existed or not (btw, how does one prove a negative if that is one's belief?). I simply asked you a question, in anticapation of you pointing me in the direction of some new information which I may have missed along the way. Because you then stated for FACT information that you could not support in subsequent postings. You poor baby. I am honoured to be described as a perfect ex-wife. - 23:32:40 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::David: I take it that you meant Joseph Campbell and not Jesus Christ. - 23:35:45 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::Joette: I do not want to get involved but lets face it the man told you where to get the infomation and what books to read. So why do you attack him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just don't get it ??? The both of you act like you are lovers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should get together and do each other. - 23:41:10 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..here's a starter..read all of this...how about you? Click on my name to see the list. Also, above, I had URL's the site to purchase Joseph Campbell's tapes as David was pleased to inform you were available. - 23:41:51 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::David and Joette. David, Joette did not state that she wanted one magic book. and Joette, David never said that Joseph Campbell was a bible scholar. You two are both f-uped and need to go out together, have dinner and spend the night together. enough said. - 23:49:15 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..and you complain about people expressing interest in the World Cup???? How old are you? Three??? David has told me to go the library. I do that at least once a week, take out two or three text books on various topics, one of them religion, and I have yet to find one that states the dates of Jesus birth and death. It is a simple question: what book would I find that in? Who has made this claim as FACT? Show me where he told me what books to read. He mentioned Joseph Campbell and biblical scholars in the same post, so would it not be an obvious assumption? I think your mommy is telling you it's time for bed. - 23:56:56 on 5 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::Joette: So now you are attacking me. I have a good memory and it seems to me that it was posted with the Roman Cronicles. Do you even know what bible scholarship books are because there are several in every library. I personally read of Jesus birth date in several accounts but I didn't think that I would need to memorize them. I am not a fanatic about this as you are. goodnight and pleasant dreams of you and David. You both deserve each other. - 0:22:37 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..you included yourself in the discussion, so if you open yourself to debate, so be it. I too have read many a book about Jesus' death and birth, but again, no dates were ever provided as FACT (do you know the meaning of this word?). If I were to discover such a book, I would gladly share its title and author with everyone here, so that there would no longer be a need to debate whether he ever existed or not. I guess you come from the school of keeping the secrets of the universe secret. - 0:38:31 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. Considering the various calendars in effect at that time, mostly based on a lunar cycle and the various changes which have taken place since that time, I don't believe it is possible to determine any birth date for jesus, particularly for those who doubt he ever existed. - 2:22:59 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Robert:Joette: Do you have a mind of your own. Just because Steve or David states the name of a book you will believe it. David says that he dosen't remember and Steve says that he dose not know. what part of that don't you understand ? Give it up. - 2:46:36 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->funny how Steve and Robert both spell the word "does" as "dose". You can run, but you can't hide! - 2:56:19 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

NEXT!!!!!!! bawhahahahaha - 2:56:55 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:--->ROBERT...fine debating skills you are exhibiting. I didn't say I would believe anything. I merely asked for some proof of the dates. Do you understand the definition of FACT or does the meaning of this word elude you as well? - 2:59:06 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::Joette: dose (d½s) n. Abbr. d., D. 1. Medicine. a. A specified quantity of a therapeutic agent, such as a drug or medicine, prescribed to be taken at one time or at stated intervals. b. The amount of radiation administered as therapy to a given site. 2. An ingredient added, especially to wine, to impart flavor or strength. 3. Informal. An amount, especially of something unpleasant, to which one is subjected: a dose of hard luck. 4. Slang. A venereal infection. --dose tr.v. dosed, dos·ing, dos·es. 1. To give (someone) a dose, as of medicine. 2. To give or prescribe (medicine) in specified amounts. [French, from Late Latin dosis, from Greek dosis, something given, from didonai, to give. See d½- below.] --dos“er n.dose (d½s) n. Abbr. d., D. 1. Medicine. a. A specified quantity of a therapeutic agent, such as a drug or medicine, prescribed to be taken at one time or at stated intervals. b. The amount of radiation administered as therapy to a given site. 2. An ingredient added, especially to wine, to impart flavor or strength. 3. Informal. An amount, especially of something unpleasant, to which one is subjected: a dose of hard luck. 4. Slang. A venereal infection. --dose tr.v. dosed, dos·ing, dos·es. 1. To give (someone) a dose, as of medicine. 2. To give or prescribe (medicine) in specified amounts. [French, from Late Latin dosis, from Greek dosis, something given, from didonai, to give. See d½- below.] --dos“er n. - 3:18:43 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Steve: My husband is a Christian and he say that he knows from his grandmother that in the lost scriptures of the Bible that Jesus was born in the month of August. So much for your athiest superiority. - 3:24:03 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::To the woman of no nane. what you call lost scriptures, I call the deceptions and myths of the bible. Furthermore it was not I but David who said that Jesus waws born in August.. But I do agree with him. Joette you should read this book. I have read it but unlike Joette I do not believe everything that I read in one book. - 3:30:09 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::What no response. Hit and run bullshit. - 3:40:15 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

David::Joette: I just came back from being out enjoying the 4th of July or should I say the 5th. And you are still ramping over the same old topic. You won already. I can't remember. Go get on with your life. Don't you have anything better to do. You will have a heart attack. Do you love to fight or what. I can't tell you want I do not remember and so I will go on with my life. So should you. If I ever tell you something in the future, don't believe me. It's that easy. Now I am going to bed and so should you. Try and have a good night. - 3:51:26 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:David.. Thank you for desecrating my Druidic beliefs and bringing a logical murmur conclusion. For, I have observed the coyote before the skippy skip days and watched it in your synchronousness. For I have come in shapeshift name form to learn, grow , and teach, but your functional abstraction is your coyote (Badb) prejuidice without logical backing. Mine was peripatetic say in logical ref. to the Aristotle manner of teaching and surely keeping to the machine web community. Your proof is in the rehash of the rehersal ground; the time is your essence of the undertaking. It is the time to play B sides my abstract friend... If David lacks the 'eliminator' and has a superficial occurrence of 'x', then, roughly speaking that occurrence can be worked around to the end; accurately speaking David is equivalent to a term of the (n'x) lacking the eliminator and lacking any added occurrences of variables. This lemma was combinator use of R to push a superficial occurrence of 'x'. The next is a matter of using Z to surface an occurence of 'x'. If David lacks the eliminator and contains 'x', then some occurrence of 'x' is superficial or, roughly to speak, can be rendered superficial. David is equivalent to a term containing a superficial occurrence of 'x' and no 'the eliminator' nor any added occurrences of variables. An occurence of 'x' in David is enclosed by say k pairs of parentheses. If a term-name David contains occurrences of 'x' and none of the eliminator, we can assume by lemma two that an occurrence of 'x' is superficial,; and then by lemma one we can render David terminal. Iteration of the assured process. Elimination of bound variables, in a way, means elimination of free variables, since open expressions are wanted ultimately only for embedding in closed ones. My time has been the observation of your skull-niche. *** dON'T turn your back or show your profile, you'll never know when it is your "TIME" to go*** Don't turn your back on intuition and superstition and the jealous -David neighbor*** David just might blow and spoil the show*** One chance to save her, keep her out of danger for she'll return the favor*** I want you so, don't say no*** Don't turn your back as the arrogant Roman soldier said in time, "Hold her down, I'll put an arrow in her skull-head"*** To defend this is the pact, and when 'life' is scorned and David's damage down to avenge in eQUILIBRIUM. There is something that rEMAINS David. - 6:03:07 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Joette.. Druids use magic"k" to creat a "fire"... I would like to explain it to you, but like I said my oracle and oral geas will be broken. The reason is that why I must leave the eQUILIBRIUM web medium. Yes, you got the '3' part right; I will miss you most of all here because we are women hear us roar. *** LASTLY, WATCH OUT FOR THE ABSTRACT FUNCTIONAL BECAUSE IT DECEIVES LIKE A "BILL PARADOX"! A FINAL BRIGHT BLESSING! *** - 6:14:48 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..that was wrong the wrong definition. I guess FACT is the *F* word for you. - 11:09:26 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM...thank you. - 11:10:30 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:DAVID- Aren't you the sexist pig! Comparing someone who uses a little skepticism to a vindictive ex-wife. I think if you had any type of smarts at all other than your claimed damned degrees, you'd realize that women like Joette or myself don't spend our time wallowing in self-pity over a disasterous former relationship, unlike you, I suspect. - 13:10:10 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: "Lost Scriptures" how convenient. what else has been lost but somehow or other(perhaps a voice in dream}, someone like the wife of a xtian nevertheless still 'knows' about it. How did that happen? Does not "LOST" mean not to be found, missing, no longer held, seen, heard etc.etc.? Or is this another one of those moroni angel things? - 14:42:11 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Haven't perused prior posts but you look like a samson with a jawbone goin'agin'these nutz for a godthing. Perhaps they should show us, first that someone like Bonaparte or G.Washington lived since they are so sure about that jc birth thing. I mean o'course, that these believers of a supposed religious point of view, revel in but the words composed by other humans. I think- they are the extremist of a humanist. I think- that in terms of believing in the doings and deeds of humans, they do it very well. The drawback with such belief, well, look at hitler, regan, etc. One must still think for oneself. - 15:04:08 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..(hope you had a good holiday)..the tragedy of the debate with David and Steven is that they both proclaim to be atheists. I hope you get a chance to read and follow the discussion (I even threw in a compliment in your honour ;) - 15:43:53 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

David::Joette: O.K. let's end this bullshit right now you hyperbole ape. I strongly berate you for your adamant bellicose arrogance. You who have turned this minor issue into a full blown war. From the very first time that you asked of me. I responded for you to go read the Bible Scholarships books and the Roman Chronicles. Then when you asked for more I told you to read the series of religious mythology written by Joseph Campbell. I did not say that J.C. books were the bible scholarship books. The bible scholarship books series is huge with each one of them being larger then the bible itself. What part of bible scholarship don't you understand. - 16:27:30 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

David::Jolette: P.S. Steve has also given to you the names of books to read. I have been attacked about my spelling, my education, my intelligence, my integrity. I have ever told you that you win. But no you keep it up. I gave you what you wanted form the very beginning. So give me a break you bitch.!!!!!!!!! - 16:31:51 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: What they 'claim' and what I see here led me to the verbalism as posted. I recall they took the position o'bein' nonmythological and in that way did I figure both to be humanist-like, instead. Perhaps they are being new ageish? - 17:12:37 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. As an atheist, I find it amusing that you should be quarreling over bible scholaship books. From the very opening story about the "creation" the bible shows itself to be the work of some deluded mind or minds. Man out of dust, woman out of a rib, talking snake and burning bush. The weeding out of the few bits of true history from the interwoven mythology has become a profitable industry and the source of countless Masters degrees and PhDs. Lighten up! - 17:30:35 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:sPam. I seem to remember you once said you were leaving us, never to return. Am I wrong? If I'm right, and you did say that, with whom did you kiss and make up. Or did you merely respond to orders from a higher authority, the towering oak? - 17:35:53 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- My sentiments exactly although I believe all Joette did was ask for the book in which David seems to have found this "factual" information. Whether a man that they call jesus actually lived is of no value anyway. Supernatural beings like gods, goddesses, fairies and elves are for fiction not for one to delude themselves that they are realities. BTW, IMO David is an arrogant asshole and I have no interest in discussing a thing with him. I'm surprised Joette has had the patience she has had with him thusfar. - 17:42:20 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:P'SAM: heare!heare! JOETTE, took a quick look and I found myself looking for sources of the "facts" also. I didn't see anything, perhaps that party, like any religious believer, just wants someone to believe'in-them'. Not very scientific is it? I also scanned thru "the lord o'the flies' and there are many other books I'd rather read for their significant meaning. Perhaps that person ought to read "The Human Worth of Rigorous Thinking" not that the lord o'the flies is bad. - 18:00:02 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Marlene et al: That Jesus lived is less questionable than Ceasar, Bonaparte, Drake or whoever discovered and founded the white Americas. That religions have systematically got it all wrong is equally unquestionable. What remains to be asked is when will we all stop this overpower crap and live? Better a life lived well in all its folly than a slavery that brings joy to no one. - 18:51:44 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAVID..if I have won, then all I ask is that if you state something as FACT, that you provide the sources of your information. Seemed to be the point you were missing. - 19:51:25 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Adam IT'S ALIVE!!!!:To fellow page denizens ææææææ I don't think I need to establish my credentials as a nonbeliever, but I would suggest that it's not the best tact to deny the existence of a dude named Jesus. To be sure, the son-of-god routine is a load of crap, but I think it unlikely that the individual is entirely fiction. In addition to commonly-posted (here) theories that he was a rebel againt Rome and perhaps the Jewish establishment, I would also posit the possibility that he had a cult-like magnetism, not unlike Manson or Kouresh, and thereby developed a substantial following that fostered his mythical reputation. Like those other cult leaders, however, it think it probable that the overwhelming majority of his contemporaries thought him to be a fanatic, in not a lunatic. As for proof that he existed, well, if he did not, then who's ass did I kick last week? Coulda SWORE it was Christ the chicken...æææææææ - 20:30:41 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Adam Erradam:That should be "IF not a lunatic." Sorry! - 20:37:19 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KEITH- Excuse', white Americas? The rest I can go with you on, that is if you mean that religion is the slavery your talking about. - 20:52:03 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM- Yes, it is possible that he could have lived but it's not absolute fact. If he did, you account sounds fairly close to the reality but then again, who's to say that Paul didn't find it neccessary to invent the guy. ANYHOW, I lurved those lyrics on Friday. It wasn't Corny's ass you kicked, I know that! - 20:55:41 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: the diluting of religio-myth beliefs ought to happen as this PC becomes available to all. The only way it may be maintained is through censorship. The xtians did it before, and while the 95% ignorance factor looks favorable to the religio-myth believers, the P-aspect of the PC thing ought to nullify\reduce that now so measured factor. So, jc was born in august? Such information, it reads like those exact dates given for the age o'the world. - 20:59:27 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..You bring up an interesting topic. It seems of late the news magazine shows have been featuring stories on what information you can find on the internet, and how maybe restrictions should be placed on what is posted herein. (60 Minutes and Dateline both did a feature just in the past week). I know that there are police now checking pornography pages, and many large corporations now have people monitoring how often their organization is mentioned on the internet each day. I found that the defenders of free speech were being shouted down by those interested in censoring the internet, and I hope that good sense prevails and they live this medium alone. - 21:49:28 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

should read "leave" not "live" - 21:51:00 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM...should have been more productive and kicked an ump's ass yesterday. - 21:52:59 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I have seen such reports too, what I have not seen are the individuals in charge. One never see's O.Roberts or such folks crying for censorship. Its always some fat sweat soaked cross tatooed slob that can't utter an educated sound that nonetheless tv says speaks for kids and all. I know as well as many other clear thinkers that, that slob ain't the problem. The problem is the'folks'with public ties and whose welfare and wealth depends on the greater public. As long as'they'think the greater public won't buy their product due to such religio-myth mindlessness, censorship by them, could happen. - 22:26:21 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: That part of the post sort of puzzles me too, 'White America' blonde long legs red haired long legs short cropped dark hair long legs long red/black/brown/auburn hair and long legs, these are good americans, or canadians or europeans or asians females etc.this is good. What was the point? - 22:59:31 on 6 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>>damn, I take off for a three days and I miss a great fight like the one with David and that prick Steve. Mabey they will come back for another round. It did appear that all you were asking is for David to back his claims. Jesus born in August, WTF! I have never seen a source that even hinted that Jesus even existed other than the silly bible, and or the forged documents of Josephus. - 14:21:01 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- Maybe we should have just asked, WTF, LOL! CARL- I hope that Keith comes back and explains that post?! - 14:32:40 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: I have been unable to determine what that steve and other pseudonym are up to. JOETTE has hung in with them. This PM I begin to practice a colt team- 15 16, for tournament play. The team will be composed of some very good BB players and a few good athletes and some smart players plus a muscle head or two, hitting 500-600 5 6 home runs, etc. - 14:42:27 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: yea, that would be an interesting source to investigate, can you imagine information such as; jc b-day is really known! (snicker) Writing stuff such as a b-day probably would appear in a kids bible. Such a feature would merely emphasise the story book thumb-rule that everything must have a beginning, even if it is just the old "Once upon a time," - 15:47:51 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:CARL<<>>how cool. I am most looking forward to coaching my son in baseball. I can not think of anything more rewarding than coaching kids, and helping them succeed in a team sport. Teaching kids to work with a team is difficult, but a worthy challenge. Good luck, and keep us posted on how well your team does. I find it humorous that christians believe that 'god' always was, and will always be. Although, i do not believe man will ever know how everything began. You start with all kinds of questions like, where did the material that started the univ. come from? etc. etc...... - 16:46:21 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>>Mrs. Steven is doing wonderfull. I am not sure if I have boasted, but the Dr's have run all of their tests and concluded that without something extreme happening, we will have a healthy baby boy! YEEEHAW! - 16:48:47 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:ANY<<>>did all have a good time on the 4th of July, terrorism day? Did we all celebrate the terrorist victory over the British in 1776? - 16:50:58 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>Today I want each of you to go to our lab. You will note that we have gathered 20 white rats there; eighteen in one cage and two in the other. Notice that all of the rats are healthy and act normally. Since all of them act normally, we will call them "righteous rats" in their normal state. Now, we will inject the terrible atheist viruses into eighteen of these rats. We have been told that the atheist virus makes these rats champions of "freedom." We would like to prove how utterly untrue that is and the type champions of freedom it really makes these rat out to be. You will notice that after we injected the atheist virus into eighteen of the rats, they immediately became sick and started to act abnormally. We will now place the sick rats, infected with the atheist virus, into the cage with the normal rats. Please note carefully how the rats with the virus responds to the righteous rat. Note that the righteous rats are doing what rats ought to do. But the contaminated rats are acting very abnormally, doing things to destroy themselves and the rest of the rats. Notice how the male rats try to mate with other male rats and the females do the same towards their gender. Note how other rats kill the embryos and fetuses of the pregnant rats. Note how the infected rats act towards the normal rats - they reject them and treat the normal rats as if they are abnormal. Now we will inject the maximum amount of a very potent ant-rejection solution into the infected rats in endeavor to get them to accept what is normal for rats and to accept the normal rats. Now note that the virus is so terrible that it does not allow the rats to act normal. If we inject a more potent solution of the anti-rejection solution into the rats we note that it kills them. Alas, we note that there is no cure for the atheist virus except that the Creator who made these rats cure them. We note that the only freedom that the infected rats now have is to act abnormally. Before we dismiss class, we must make sure to take the normal rats out of the cage with the infected rats lest the infected rats kill them. And we must destroy the infected rats>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 18:27:16 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: looks like a tale of anti-freedom for rats to me. I agree rats are great lab-research things. - 18:52:44 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steve::Joette: David and I gave to you all the infomation that you need to go out and read about it. We do not want to argue about this, you do. David was wrong.You are not just a bitch. You are a f-ing bitch. You are dishonest and I feel sorry for the people who sided with you because they apparently do not know the truth about what was going on, yet blindly follow your lead. You seem to think that you are too God like to prove your point of view. I do not care if Jesus lived or not. I would like to go to this site and discuss other topics, but no, you are still on this old one. You make me sick. - 19:27:15 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:STEVE<<>>take a vallium young man. Joette was simply asking for facts to back up a statement that was made. How this makes her sick, I am not sure. I am quite sure that calling Joette a bitch is not going to back up the ridiculous statement that someone named jesus was born in august. Do you have any Facts, or do you just make statements and expect people to believe them? - 20:03:05 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Marlene: Somewhat time delayed reply. Fraid so about the white Americas bit, s'all history. Do we believe history? Ask the native Indians, they would have some right to still be pissed about the whole thing. My argument is that Jesus may well be just exactly who and what historically he said he was. That does not change our responsibility to come out from under the yoke of religion and live. Denying history is assuming an ostrich position that could well destroy us. If we don't take history seriously then how can we ever be on our guard against, say, another Spanish inquisition, or the pope, if it comes to that. History is a friend, whether we like what it contains or not. - 20:06:29 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:TEACHER<<>> you forgot to include the whole experiment. You forgot to tell how a few of the 'righteous' rats got together and decided that the rest of the 'righteous' rats were heathens because they believed in the mother of the creator. So the (shall we call them the christian rats) christian rats decided to burn the other 'righteous' rats at the toothpick, or drown them in the water bowl. Well not all of the 'christian' rats agreed among themselves after they had murdered all of the 'righteous' rats, that what they did was what the creator wanted them to do. So they split into two groups and started murdering each other, you now have the 'christian' rats, and they 'mormon' rats. All this time the 'atheist' rats are sick of all of the murdering for a silly mythology, and decided that enough was enough. They snuck out of the lab and won their way to freedom outside of the lab. Once there they were able to live amongst themselves with out rats killing each other over something that doesn't exist. All the while the rats, that still lived in the lab, becuase they were to uneducated to figure out how to escape, were still murdering each other. Only now there were hundreds of 'righteous' groups, and none of them could agree to what made them righteous in the first place. I think I skipped around alot, but you get my point you brainwashed sack of shit. - 20:14:02 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:TEACHER<<>>thanks for the URL, but most of us obviously know the literary pile of shit you call a bible better that thou. - 20:18:02 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:KEITH<<>>you obviously know something that I do not. After 10 yrs of research on the jesus myth, I have found nothing that points to the fact that the person ever existed. What exactly was your point about Native Americans? - 20:20:45 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Teacher. Maybe you should come to England and find out about the righteous behaviour here of child abuse within the church, not to mention homosexuality, imorality and all the stuff that infects the so called athiest rats. I doubt that it's restricted to England, but that I know about. So that mind experiment was crap. - 20:20:57 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Steven: My only point about the Americas was whether we believe documented history and was attempting to bring it closer to home. After 10 years of research where? I don't know if you have an equivalent to the British library in the US, but the documentation is impecable as to the existance of Jesus, leaving aside any reference to the bible. You might just as well deny the Roman Empire or even the foundation of America as we know it today. - 20:27:54 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven :KEITH<<>>oh, the christians/catholics have the same problem here. We have several priests on trial for molesting children, and many, if not all are being convicted. We have protestant denonminations with the same problems. I know for a fact that Texas just convicted an Assembly of god preacher for raping and molesting a 13 yr old. We have another 'pastor' arrested for having sex with one, or several, of his youth group. All of it fairly disgusting. IMO ALL of these problems stem from putting faith in a mythology that is pure filth. - 20:28:05 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven :KEITH<<>>if this is the case, could you cite the resource. For all of the scholars that I have read indicated that jesus was 1> either made up by the ruling romans of the time 2> or that he was a rebel leader etc. etc. The garbage in the bible is not even worth considering. If they are credible resources, please post them, I would be most interested in viewing documentation that can prove that jesus lived. Was his name jesus? (no), where exactly was he born? Are there records of his death? Whom were his parents? Why was he executed? etc. etc. We know for FACT that the bible is nonsense, man made drivel to compel human beings to remain ingorant. If there is a base to the myth of jesus I want to know. When I said ten years of research, I was indicating that since I rejected christianity (the deadly virus) I have been attempting to find out the truth as to how people accept and put faith in a mythology that is so contemptable. It is impossible to deny the Roman Empire, for there are records, buildings, etc. etc. that point to the fact of the Roman Empire. I have found nothing to point to the fact of jesus. - 20:36:22 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Stephen: I will not labour the point, because you can deny anything you want to, but will send what info I have. You could start with the Dead Sea scrolls, and probably already have. But if you are determined that these are forged, then what can I say? Modern conspiracy theory is an indulgence that was not available then, scribes were almost sacred *scuse the expression*. Jesus was not called Jesus anyway, he was called Yeshua, religion even ripped off his Jewish name and made it more palatable in their power trip. - 20:47:51 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:KEITH<<>>I seems that you think that I am attacking what you are saying, which I am not. I mearly wished to read for myself this information that you say exists. If I said that I had read in the Library of Congress that King Richard was gay, you would want to read it yourself, would you not. I do not take word of mouth for fact, I would rather view it for myself. Is my position difficult to understand? I have read some of the 'scrolls', at least what has been released so far. Also, it may be proven that he existed, but nothing short of 'jesus' appearing in front of me will ever convince me of a god, or gods. - 20:56:13 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVE..I have been called worse by better people, so your insults do not phase me. I just have to consider the source. I am curious as to what make me dishonest though. What evidence is there in my posts to have you announce to the world (for a fact, there's that "f" word again) that I am dishonest? - 21:58:23 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Steven: Making no connection with god or gods. Will take a day or so to stump up the goodies. Watch this space. Your position I understand, though the allusion to King Richard would be amusing but probably would not send me into research frenzy :-). - 22:00:49 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH..I checked out your website, but parts of it are impossible to read under the "Jesus" section, as the bright colours are gobbled up by the background. Any chance of changing the colours or background so that it can be read? If this isn't your own website, please ignore this request. - 22:03:29 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH..liked the "Friends in Dark Places", especially the last line. - 22:08:46 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:TEACHER. Your lab experiment was a waste of time. If your aim was to find sexual perverts you didn't have to go to all that trouble. No need for any injections or lab animals. You could have gone to your nearest church. If I had the money the Catholic church alone paid out to settle sexual abuse claims I could build an atheist "temple" that would make the vatican look like an outhouse. - 22:56:26 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. "Freethought Today", published by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has a full page (tabloid newspaper size) devoted to "Black Collar Crimes". The paper is one of the best atheist publications around. http://www.infidels.org/org/ffrf/ - 23:09:21 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

ADAM Oh, Shit!:PAPA SLAM øøøøø The Vatican DOES look like an outhouse. Thank you. - 23:14:03 on 7 Jul 98 GMT

Green snot, yellow bogger,green spit,,,PapaSam you are cool - 0:41:21 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ADAM. I will grant you that the contents of the Vatican, intellectually speaking, is a crock of shit. (are crocks of shit?) Besides not being an architect or a city planner, I lack the actual knowledge of what it looks like. I will therefore yield the point. - 1:49:20 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:To my anonymous admirer(?). Did you mean booger? Please be more careful of your spelling. I don't want people to think my fans are semi-literate. You make up for your error by your knowledge of mucus, both dried and liquid. It must have taken a great deal of nose picking on your part. - 2:06:28 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PETER--:Gaud is a fraud - 3:28:34 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--God is a frod - 3:29:21 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--That WAS a sack of shit wasn't it? - 3:33:23 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--Also, excellent rebuttal on the "rat" story--which by the way makes a lot more sense the the original sack o' shit - 3:35:36 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KEITH- Even if this person lived, there was no virgin birth, no water into wine etc. etc. It makes no difference if he lived or not. - 14:17:08 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: I rec'd finally a copy of A.Whites warfare 'tween science and theology, the next piece I'll purchase is concepts of nature. So, jc is fact? If tertullian is correct in saying that,"once one has believed, search should cease." has KEITH gotten to that very point in regards to his jc? - 16:18:45 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Of our absentee pseudonym "Quiet Sun" has anyone checked their dictionary for the definition of a quiet sun? I encountered that word while checkin'out another, perhaps QS was actually inclined to naturalism and somehow got to backpedalin'at this site and just couldn't recover. Check it out. - 16:54:01 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...Morning-:CARL- Where is this definition? - 17:23:23 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I'm now w/you, I just checked a'coupla school\office paper and hardbound webster/randomhouse dictionarys, it wasn't in either. This a.m., I saw it in a 2500 pg. 2nd edition Randomhouse dictionary. - 17:40:34 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: the QS def.goes; 1- the sun at the minimum of solar activity occuring every 11 years 2- the unchanging background of solar phennomena. There it is. - 18:53:40 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Joette: Thank you for the message about my web site. Am extremely grateful. Will do something about it asap. - 19:02:31 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Joette: Updated URL. Thank you for your comment on Friends in Dark Places. - 20:19:27 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH..I've enjoyed your writings. - 21:01:21 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

The Unkown Comic...:A lawyer, a teacher and a priest were on an airplane. Each man had a child in his care. During the flight, the plane began to descend quickly, with a crash imminent. There were three parachutes which the lawyer quickly grabbed and was going to give one to the teacher and priest. The teacher said "Wait, what about the children?" The lawyer screamed "FUCK THE CHILDREN" and the priest quickly asked "Do we have time?" - 22:00:13 on 8 Jul 98 GMT

STUDENT TO TEACHER:>>>It's typical of atheists to dismiss and laugh at something that they are absolutely terrified of, I believe. A classic example of the atheist's farce in denying God's existence is the atheist in a crashing plane, kneeling in tears and screaming to God to save him. What I'm curious to see, is the expression on Carl Sagan's face right now. - 3:59:09 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:STUDENT-- Your ignorant opinion regarding how atheists behave in the face of death has no bearing on whether or not God exists. Grow up. Do you have something to add, or are you just here to masterbate? - 4:16:08 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STUDENT--Wouldn't it be the christians that would be shouting to God to save them? Wouldn't you? So what is your point? The expression on Carl Sagans face will be just as it was when they buried him. If you doubt me, let's dig up his grave, bring someone with us that was a the funeral who can attest to what his facial expression was, and I will bet you any amount of money you like that it will be unchanged. - 5:09:32 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:PETER-- These schoolyard xtians can't seem to comprehend that atheists don't believe in their god. Personally, when things get sticky I find myself calling out for Paul Bunyan and Babe the blue ox. - 13:31:52 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..:Isn't it vunderful that the student and teacher are the same ignorant animal. The blind leading the blind. - 13:51:14 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..:STUDENT- I've been in the dying position and your silly god never even entered my mind. I'll put my confidence in another human before I resort to a delusion. As Peter has suggested, Carl Sagan's face is right now is likely exactly how your face will look when you've reached his state of decompostion. - 13:55:22 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Typical o'atheist? That post must mean that the stu/teach does not accept the idea o'no god. I guess that can be viewed as just a humble opinion, especially since not one theist has yet, clearly identified and said where that godthing is now, or where and when they last saw it. While they inscribe of metaphysical notions of that belief, of which they, collectively, have 'composed' a supposed "system of belief" and except for their airborne words and memory, in my experience, there is no such godthing. Where is it? - 14:38:06 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..with heart:STUDENT- In addition, I don't always laugh at xtians and their delusions, although I do frequently. Sometimes I just pity them. - 14:46:58 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--I certainly hope the Student/Teacher/Robert T. Lee continues to post and shoot himself in the foot every time. It's kind of fun watching.... - 15:33:38 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

dana:Since when is a hypothetical situation an "example" of a god's existence? I can just as easily mention that the Christians on that pretend crashing airplane are crying and wondering why their god is ignoring their pleas for help and allowing them to die even though they have done nothing to deserve it. - 16:20:50 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:DANA: That is the wonderfulness of a godthing to theists, it ain't really there but it is at the same time, and time does not stand still so somehow or other it lives but don't ask where. It is agin'the godthings rules to question or doubt its being. So, actually an "example" is the only way to account for a godthing. It also is not a delusional act on a theists part (It is o'course) to say anything and everything of the godthing 'cause, they don't what it is; that 'cause they can't show or tell me where it is. - 16:48:57 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

ADAM---LET US RECAP SOME MAJOR POINTS ÝÝÝÝÝÝÝ:Oh, God! Tim-Book-Two ÝÝÝÝÝ All belief in a higher, conscious authority or universe-inventing or -controlling being are primitive and childish. All religion is ignorance, and religion is the leading proponent of ignorance throught the course of human existence. As one wise man said recently, "Religion is the great anchor on the ship of human intellectual progress." (Me, sometime last year, at 6:12 PM). In addition, religious belief has been and continues to be the leading cause of homicide on earth. The fundamental premise of major Western religions—to wit, that there is a human-like being, with supreme powers but all the other frailties of ordinary humans, such as anger, and insecurity that demands prayer by subservient beings created in his image), quite obviously stems from human self-congratualory insecurity, and the child-like notion that anything for which there is no fully adequate explanation in day-to-day human-experience terms must surely be the work of a super-human much like us, only bigger. The unwillingness to acknowledge humanity's relative insignificance in the course of the cosmos is indeed, an outright expression of frail insecurity. The concept of afterlife and reincarnation also arises from this insecurity and fear of the finality of death. As a final matter, I would be remiss if I did not point out that god is a chicken-shit, yellow-bellied sonofabitch who is scared of my superior powers of reason which, were it not for the aforementioned shortcomings of most people, would spell his demise. That is to say, I can kick god's ass, anytime, anyplace. Whattaya say, you farking scumbag almighty fictitious creator? God is a pussy, plain and simple. - 18:00:35 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:DANNA- Exactly, I their god was SOOOOOOOO loving why would people die in pain, why would children go hungry and why would the jerk get away with being a jerk? - 18:01:26 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM- See! This is why Corny is the One. Corny cares not of humans, in fact Corny cares not of anything but it's self. - 18:04:33 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Pam: I am sorry for coming back but I must set the balance back as a practising Druid. The Pu'ce is the shadow of the shape shift; It lies in between times and places to seek magickal imbalance of my remaining equilibrium. It lures you into the belief of many realities; my Druidic magick was always for equilibrium of the web site and pointed it out as such in rehash. A quiet sun of fires is called at optimal times, which overcomes inertia. For my Delph is being restored in perpetuual chant. The lecherous invisibilty of the this cat is an ant-track tool, where the notation of the stars is in abstract. But this cat uses signals or signils. As the imbalance occurs ,Druids set fires in the law of association, law of similarity, and the law of contagion. For this cat discriminates to control people; be weary of this invisible creep. The east is for visionary walkings in meditation and truth telling in summer. This cat uses a type of magick which uses spirits from Christian and Jewish faith, mostly starting with a reference to Jesus or Jehovah. "They" visualize and meditate the Animal Magick; a protection spell is needed but Druidism deals more with nature realm. This cat's intent is of not obvious form where a signal is used; it is set aside by a 'thank you'. The subconscious mind is reprogramed in reality in accordance of the will. As a method of practical magick it is simple for this cat. I have observed "THEY" for many months now through his skull. Prepare the circle feast of Lughnasadh of release; I am not indoctrinating for I must come back and do this for this is my belief. I am trying to teach also; I think this cat associates in Egyptian Ritual Magick of the modern. It uses children and butterflies to reduce the chaos to simplicity. This cat tells of CHILDREN and EVENTS AND CONSEQUENCES OF PROTECTION, but the cat's intentions are not wholesome and they were begun in insult of the first form MANY months ago. For this cat has led the error of admitting the suicidal 'CENSOR' in avowed terms as the proper arbiter of conduct here. It also uses the mace of disruption and the position of surrealness - those friends of dark in the posted web site; it wants the masterbation gaunlet (ie. witness the judgemental ethics of RLT AND HIS RATS). This symbolism is not wholesome, which I am sure you deduced. It was never a question of believe in them Carl; all I ask Joette was to believe that I was not this cat which I have observed here for many months in my learning and teaching of the rigorious. In binding there is another type of Magick for which a bound image seal of opposite lunar must burn. For Druidic Magick is the most resistant in Nature. Like I said I believe in this and I am not indoctrinating; only to point out what I have observed in the cat for manny months. It will continue to creep and be careful of it. This IS why I posted again, because a conscious healing can ease the transition without confusion*** Walk in wisdom and HONOR be your friend; yes and 'Biodh se'! We are grounded in minds yet practical--> coming from a misunderstood Druid. Good-bye and bless! - 18:09:15 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Joette..aka The Unkonwn Comic:-->okay everybody...I posted that airplane crash thing because I thought it to be a damn good joke. Now, may I have some giggling please, instead of a philisophical discussion????? LOL! - 18:09:56 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:PAM: "It lures you into the belief...etc" this sort of verbalism is but to play with a word, as you do with "b-e-l-i-e-f". You seemingly hold that a belief is like some kinda'UFO. In this way does that word which is merely a word, like toothache- this word, is sure not that thing happening in your mouth, neither is belief that UFO. Belief, what is it as you mean it here? If you can function within the restriction of bringing your meaning closer to your uttered/inscribed word, you then won't seem so astral. - 18:41:38 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:PAM<<>>no flame intended, but could you restate your last post in English, or something that we can comprehend. - 18:49:03 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>> hehe! - 18:49:50 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>> Today I would like to to demonstrate a classic example of how the so-called "educated" atheists twist the Holy Scriptures in endeavor to deceive. Please type into your computers the URL: http://www.infidels.org/org/ffrf/nontracts/abortion.html found at the web site of the so-called "freedom from religion foundation." ------------- I direct your attention to the subject: "What Does The Bible Say About Abortion? -------------- Note carefully that the atheist that wrote that article quoted Exodus 21:22-25 and then gave a deceptive interpretation of the passages in effort to show that the Bible does not teach against abortion. Notice carefully that this person used the word "miscarriage" in the erroneous sense that the baby dies from the struggle and the person who caused the baby's death is not to be put to death, but is only to pay at the husband's discretion. --------- However, that interpretation is utterly false and insane. To prove that it is false, please note that the word "fruit" in that passage comes from the Hebrew word "yeled" which means "something born or offspring." The word "depart" comes from the Hebrew word "yatsa" which means "to go out." Thus we see that these words have the sense of: "if her fruit departs alive from her." That is : "if she has an untimely live birth." If the struggle causes the baby to be born alive before its time. In such a case, the one who caused the untimely live birth is to be punished as the child's father determines. But if the baby should be hurt, or if it dies in or out of the womb, or if the mother is hurt or dies before or after its birth as a result of the struggle "...then you shall appoint as a penalty, life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.-------Need we say more about how atheists seek to deceive?------CLASS DISMISSED - 21:10:04 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:(S)PAM. Why don't you challenge the pope to a debate? Between the pope's angels and your trees you'd be assured of a great audience. You keep saying each appearance will be your last. It's like the "Farewell Performance" of a stage artist who returns year after year, except that they have something worthwhile to offer. GOOD-BY, I hope. - 21:15:38 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I thought it was funny! And could very well be true too! - 22:23:03 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..hit the lights!:Holy cat's eyes, Pam, I think I'm beginning to see in the darkness. So ole RTL is the cat? - 22:24:52 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..schools out for SUMMER, ..schools out FOREVER:I say, SHOOT THE TEACHER! - 22:26:18 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

LITTLE DIRTY JOHNNY AT THE BACK OF THE CLASSROOM---:--I don't give what would be probably he biggest flying fuck in history what the fucking bible says about abortion or fucking tiddley-winks. If God flies, and he fucks, it still wouldn't come close to this flying fuck, even if he flew and fucked into infinity. And fuck you, teacher - 22:32:58 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Teacher: I don't give a flying fuck for your abortion/whathefuck either. All those anti abortionists out there have to answer to a moral issue. If you persuade someone to not have an abortion then you are morally responsible for the quality of life that the child has to live, and I don't see too many people grsping that nettle. It is so easy to preach. Piss off! Eye for an eye, get out of here! - 22:46:18 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Adam CAN CORN! ******:Lieutenat Kernel Marlene ***** I urge you to drop this Cornball nonsense and heed the word of Almighty Seuss, whose words are in the holy scriptures. What more evidence to you need? "But even kings can't rule the SKY." Bartholomew & the Oobleck 5:15 - 23:05:14 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Adam I DIG THAT CAT ˜˜˜˜˜:Green Eggs and Pam: ˜˜˜˜˜ Druid, shmooid! I know the magical "cat" to which you refer is certainly the Hatted One, first and felinist prophet of Almighty Seuss. Funny, Pam, but you don't LOOK Druish. - 23:09:39 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

GOD:ROBERT T. LEE...why do you hide behind the silly teacher front? Are you not man enough to show yourself? You are doing more to put me out of a job than any atheist on this page. - 23:12:55 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Adam IT'S A TOUGH ROOM WITH A VIEWPOINT ¬¬¬¬¬¬:Ho-ho, Jo, is that the whole show? ¬¬¬¬¬ Sorry, babe, it's and OLD joke. BMW, what was Fred Flintstone like personally? Is this an audience or an oil painting? Hel-LO? Is this thing ON? - 23:12:58 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM...oh mighty egoman, you are just miffed because of the part the lawyer played in the joke. - 23:15:42 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Adam WINNER of THIS YEAR'S SPELLING BEING ¶¶¶¶¶ :Consonant Carl ¶¶¶¶¶: Holy-aides wants to know...how do YOU spell "belief"? And who the hell do you think YOU'RE calling an astral? Wheeeee! - 23:16:04 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Adam I'LL BET IT WAS "THE MAGIC HOUR" ªªªªªª :The great anchor? How about full speed astern? ªªªªª TIME Daily July 9, 1998 Television Banned in Afghanistan: The Taliban government outlaws possession of TV sets Updated: Jul 9 1998 12:32PM The revolution will not be televised -- at least not in Afghanistan. The Taliban government today banned TV, and gave Afghans 15 days to get rid of all sets and VCRs. After that, if the organization's enforcers find one in your house, it will be destroyed and you will be punished. - 23:22:54 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

what is exactly IS a flying fuck? - 23:24:32 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

Peter:TEACHER--Lets see how smart you are. To what joke is this the punchline?: 'Yeah, I've seen one before, but this one's eating my popcorn' - 23:31:17 on 9 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:TEACHER. The murderous god of your bible and your religion is the master abortionist of all time. If you believe your bible, take a look at Sodom and at the flood. Your god brimstoned Sodom and all its residents, including the babies suckling at their mothers' breasts and the fetuses in their mothers' wombs. For a change of pace, instead of burning them up, he decided to drown them all. So your god came out with a flood and drowned the whole world except for the drunk, Noah, and his familly. How many million did he abort that time? You tell me, teacher. It's your bible and your abortionist god. If you don't know, ask your priest, if you can get him away from bungholing the altar boy. - 0:05:37 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..feline fine tonight:YEAH! How about that, no TV! Reminds me of my parents! Even I didn't order my kids to not watch TV, I just made sure they spent all their time praising my motherly ways, they had no time for TV. DAMN ADAM, I'm not praying to no pussy even if it's a druid. KERNELS 10:24- Corny loathes pussies. - 5:42:50 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..and futhermore..:KERNELS 10:25- Even druid pussies. - 5:44:40 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..:KEITH- I agree, are all these pro-lifers ready and willing to raise and educate these kids? Big talk, not too much action methinks. - 5:47:01 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..would this make Corny a homosexual? - 10:45:20 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->TEACHER (aka ROBERT T LEE)...if your god is so good and so real, why aren't we born knowing instinctively about him? Why does your god allow people to put themselves into a position (no pun intended) where an abortion may be necessary? Why are you so intent on having people put to death, especially women? Is your real name Norman Bates? Do you hear voices? - 10:50:07 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:GENITALS 1:34- Corny loathes gender. - 13:31:50 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:We will award the sum of $50,000 to any "educated" atheist who can intelligently and truthfully answer the following simple question: "By what law can you rightly judge the Almighty God? -------- To all who read this challenge, please note the degree of intelligence from the various named atheists that may follow. If any atheist thinks he or she can answer the question intelligently, please do so in this forum, send me email or send the answer to atkinson@jewishmail.com ------THANK YOU! - 14:37:02 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:GENITALS2: I see the L.Bobbitt thing like a virus adrift, floated to the north to the grandmothers land. Some female didn't care for it when a younger female was receiving all the attention of her huz. Instead of "off with his head" it was to the pubic bone, balls no mas. Reports cont'd she even fulshed it away, sentence; all suspended. Re. said to be six kids aged 4-16 - 14:41:38 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:RTL: Show me the godthing and a judgement could be rendered. As an atheist my position is that there is no godthing due to lack of evidence. That is as true as true can be for me, but is it correct? This also applies to your point of view. As said before, I would give such a thing some attention but there is no way for me or you to say such a thing is a godlike thing, except to be gods ourselves. I can say of you because you are a human as me. You and that godthing just a wishful thought of living forever instead of being dead- forevermore, will you be as nothing. - 14:53:01 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ASTRAL: a general and common example could be the notion of 'democracy', instead o'that person who holds certain affections for trees and what-not. I just read a lengthy report o'that nigerian leader- poisoned to death, while he was in control. If one follows that I am familiar only with the USA view of "democracy" and its historical development and its purported objectives, then what happened when the dead nigerian was "in control" reads like any USA account o'A.Jackson the pres.in charge during the trail o'tears. But, deeds like that in the USA still don't count, on accounta'it is democratic. The democratic thinking is astral. Bring the word's meaning nearer to deeds and it won't be astral (to see on one hand or on the other just a killing thing; 'cause after all, democracy is a wonderful place). I was annoyed at reading that human rights thing, can you tell? - 15:48:06 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:RTL<<>>god doesn't exist, so there is nothing to judge. That would be like judging the Easter Bunny, or Santa. uhhh, ummm, period. - 15:58:57 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Ben:I believe since people who believe in god came up with the easter bunny and santa and they are fake god must be too if the same people follow him - 17:03:57 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE By the law of reason. One cannot judge that which does not exist. Make the check payable to the Freedom From .Religion Foundation. - 17:10:13 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE...there is no law in my country or your country that would allow anyone to "judge god". In case you haven't noticed, being hunkered down in your bomb shelter, not everyone thinks that there is a god. BTW, you forgot to answer my question as to whether you hear voices in your head? Show us the money btw. You probably don't have a pot to piss in, let alone $50,000. You are a fuckwit. - 17:13:27 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: "Law", if I recall correctly, most folks see that as a human contrivance. The closest a human can come to recognition of something humans call law-like are the regular occurences within that thing generally known as nature. So, in the case of that question the response must be that it is reason, as it is the only law-like thing any human can utilise. I have found that the parts of reason do not imply any godthing, they perhaps imply either the known or the unknown. By the way RTL, as I've heard it said, since I'm a cash kinda'guy, small bills please. - 17:36:27 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:RTL: bein's that i'm a humble sort, in regards to your query of some godthing, check out this site, this may speak to your inner stuff too. - 18:34:50 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Adam The LAW is a KICK ASSCH!!:General Knowledge Lee: ====== I rightly can judge the fictional "almighty" wimp of a god by the law of supply and demand. A check will do just fine. - 18:38:47 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T LEE--If YOU had any intelligence at all,( and at this juncture I can safely conclude you possess little more than your basic motor skills ) YOU would have noticed your question sufferes from the fallacy of subverted support, and again of circular reasoning. To demonstrate, I will ask you a question which also suffers from these to fallacies, and maybe then you will get the picture--although I'm not really counting on that either.." By what Law can you rightly judge the Almighty Gnorfflyboombatty?" Get it?....I didn't think so. - 18:50:33 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:RTL: To briefly enter your domain. If God gave us free will and the ability to reason, then s/he enabled us to exersize judgement in all things, including in relation to his/her self. - 19:55:57 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. Where's my money? My sources at FFRF tell me they haven't received it. There is no level too low for you and your ilk to sink in your efforts to defend your delusions. You are so full of shit it is coming out of your ears. You have no $50,000 and if you did have it you would not give it away, particularly to an atheist. If you're trying to impress me, yu've succeedded. You impress me as a liar, a blusterer, and a blithering idiot. - 20:09:07 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Adam WHATEVER PEOPLE CAN BELIEVE WRONG, PEOPLE WILL ****** :Oh, Robert T. Leaves: ******* I have just rightly judged the Almighty God by Murphy's Law. Check please, primitive, childish assmunch! - 20:34:16 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Adam HEAVENLY BENEFITS???:Yoo Hoo! Mr. Robert T. Rex: ÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷ Do you derive benefits from your fictitious, wimpy-ass lord? Well, benefits in the United States are governed by the Employee Retirement Income & Security Act. You OWE ME BIG TIME, pathetic loser, because the U.S. District Courts therefore rightfully can judge the Alma Materhorn God under ERISA. The Almond Joy Luck Club God created the wetlands, did he not? Well, Mr. Welcher Wuss, he could have "prior responsible party" liability under CERCLA, the U.S. Superfund Statute. Don't all clergy and evangelicals do the lord's work? AHA, divine delusion dick, then the Alta Vista View God rightfully can be judged pursuant to a host of statutes governing employers, including Title VII, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Occupational Safety & Health Act. SHOW ME THE FUCKING $$$, or I'll sue your skanky, reality-avoidin', boy-lovin', scripture-regurgitatin', old-testament-lovin' ass! Oh, by the way, your Alma Ata Boy God can countersue me for assault, 'cause I just kicked his pee-in-the-pants ass! - 20:47:00 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Bill....:Robert, I'm going to only say this once and then I am out of here; I don't like wasting my time arguing with people, so take it for what it's worth. I don't even need an answer to my questions here, as I am giving you some things to think about. Paradoxically, there are only two "deterministic" and "axiomatic" LAWS of the universe/nature that everything and everyone are governed by. The universe has followed these laws, unlike the Ten Commandments, long before man came up with a name for them. These two laws encompass what man calls ENTROPY (death and decay…that which is BAD) and ORGANIZATION (life and procreation…that which is GOOD). These determinants or Laws were never rationalized or created by humans but are just simply observed by humans. If anything is supreme, it is the random interactions in the universe in accordance with its two laws. We build, and nature grows, in accordance with "organization…as a result of the forces of gravity" to only be destroyed by a hurricane or "entropy…also the result of the forces of gravity." Just one random asteroid collision with the earth, like that which we observed on Jupiter a few years ago; you, me, and your ten commandments will be unrecognized and unappreciated by the cockroaches that will inevitable survive, ha! Both particle (life) and anti-particle (death) are produced in an equal quantity, with a concurrent reality, when energy is converted into matter in the lab or elsewhere in the universe. Your rational higher mind level is a product of organization or survival, which has endowed us with a CONSCIENCE. This conscience mind level tells us that if we kill, we will in turn be killed; and thus, not survive as long! Why did an All-powerful and all perfect God create an imperfect world? In other words, if a rational God exist as you say, he also created that which we fear or evil. Why Robert???? Would you, as a rational caring conscious mind, create a universe this way? The TRUTH is Robert, the Ten Commandants are a creation of MAN'S higher mind level rationalizations and natures need to survive and procreate. I don't kill because I don't want to be killed, etc…it's just that simple! I don't need a commandment to keep me from killing because it's not in my best interest. I also don't engage in many other acts, not covered by the Ten Commandments, such as INCEST because it will ultimately shorten my ability to survive and enjoy life. Why do you glorify MAN'S COMMANDMENTS, instead of listening to your own personal conscience? Do you not trust your conscience? Is this not a weakness of human character to need the heavy hand of MAN'S TEN COMMANDMENTS hanging ominously over his head? - 22:13:27 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:--->Bill, good post (little mistake in the axiom area though lol!) - 22:21:43 on 10 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>Greetings Class>>>>Class will not last as long today. So let me briefly just point out several contradictions atheists express: One thing atheists do in attempt to discredit God is to deceptively point out how unmerciful and murderous God is in killing babies and so forth. On the other hand, an atheist will not condemn an abortionist, nor will the atheists condemn a murderer to receive the death penalty even while trying to totally extinquish God. Again, on one hand atheists say God does not exist; but on the other, they try to condemn Him for killing babies and etc. (chuckle) The overwhelming evidence of God's existence and their knowledge thereof causes them to forget their denial of God, and they try to judge God. They are like criminals who are being questioned by detectives. On one hand they try to deny they committed the crime, but on the other, they unknowingly admit the truth thereof.>>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 6:12:29 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Teacher: You didn't even read the responses to your question. Had you done so you would have avoided the smugness of your later response. I am unsure what point you have to prove, but strive to prove it you obviously must. You remind me of what we call 'frotters' in England. People who rub themselves against others on crowded trains for sexual gratification. I hope you are getting your rocks off, because someone ought to derive some satisfaction from your sad posturing. - 7:50:42 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KEITH- Very good posts to RTL. I doubt he reads any of them though, he just loves to rant. - 14:20:28 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:KEITH-- Smugness seems to be tied to overestimation of one's knowledge, understanding, capabilities, etc. IMO. The more TEACHER posts, the more obvious it becomes how little he comprehends. Good example of circular reasoning, though, don't you think? - 14:24:21 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ANY..do you notice that as soon as RTL has had his say in his "classroom" he immediately dismisses the "class". What type of learning environment is that? "This is the truth so you need not respond or ask questions. Do not think." Is it any wonder he is afraid to take his fight into the real world? - 14:28:25 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--OK TEACH', why don't we just go over a few things you have just said, just for fun. You said "One thing atheists do in attempt to discredit God is to deceptively point out how unmerciful and murderous God is in killing babies and so forth.".... Yes atheists point this out often. They just are puzzled why anyone would want to worship an entity such as this as he is described in the Bible--who does murder like no other despot in history has. Athesits use this example to contradict the claims that God is kind and showing INFINITE love--these references merely demonstrate --successfully I may add--the inconsistency of the claim of what God allegedly is. Then you continue with: "On the other hand, an atheist will not condemn an abortionist, nor will the atheists condemn a murderer to receive the death penalty even while trying to totally extinquish God.' This is pure nonsense, once again prompted by your continued display of making prejudicial and bigotted assertions--a pervading line of thinking that religious beliefs not only do not point out the flaws, but in fact encourage. There are lots of atheists who are opposed to abortion ( perhaps not for the same reasons as a fundamentalist christian ) and there are millions of christians who are support of abortions. And this applies as well to capital punishment as well--some atheists are for it--some against it, some christians are for it, and some against it--so whether one is an cristian or an atheist is no criteria on which one takes aposition on this issue. ......Then you continue to say 'The overwhelming evidence of God's existence and their knowledge thereof causes them to forget their denial of God, and they try to judge God." There is NO evidence to support the notion of God existing, and the people who understand this situation are atheists. You do not understand this situation--that is why you are a christian. Again, any 'judging' of God that an atheist may do is to judge the notion of God as he is described in the Bible. An atheist can point out the contradictions, inconsistencies and the moral turpitude of God AS HE IS DESCRIBED in the Bible. All the atheist is doing is questioning the SOURCE of by which a believer gatheres his information and concludes there is such a thing as God, and the atheist will point out theglaring flaws in the COGNITIVE processes the believer implements to conclude such an entity exists......So TEACHER, next time you feel inclined to conduct another class, try to determine if your students don't already know far more than you do--because so far this has been the case, and it continues to be almost too embarassing to witness--although it provides some amusement - 14:59:00 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Principal:TEACHER. Go back to school, but as a pupil. You may skip kindergarten and go directly to first grade. - 17:07:03 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:A set S exhibits the sensitive dependence if there is an r such that for any epsilion > 0 and for each x in S , there is a y such that /x-y/ < epsilion, and /x_ n-y_n/ > r for some n > 0. There is a fixed distance r (say 1), such that no matter how precisely one specifies an intial state there are neraby states that eventually get a distance r away. This does not require exponential growth of perturbations-->positive Lyapunov exponent. One thinks of an intial meaning when a disturbance time error is introduced, not necessarily time zero. Sorry for the disturbance but in my belief of Druidic magick and honor I am only pointing things out. This cat has not responded to questions posed ; RTL is a judgemental pawn of this cat's amusement. In returning and in respectof my own disturbance*** - 17:26:53 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:(s)PAM. I have not seen a single favorable comment on your bullshit postings. Take your oak trees, your birch trees, your lichen and your moss - I'll even throw in the giant California redwoods - and shove them. Spew your garbage on some theist site and compete with like minded idiots. No one here is interested. - 21:03:46 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Father John:PAM. Would you like to buy some ectoplasm? I supply either x or y or any squared component tailored to any tree. It is highly recommended by the Druidic council of Science and Seance and guaranteed. It makes oak trees drop acorns and pine trees drop cones. Try some yourself and it may make you drop a druid. Legal in all druid dominions. - 21:15:17 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Pam: what planet, just exactly what planet are you from? No forget it. I don't want to know. Marlene: ranting seriously the name of the game, what is it about religion that brings out the ostrich in people ( If I keep my head up my arse for long enough, will I eventually see the light?)? Bunch or arse, as we say in merrie old England. Grant, circular reasoning? Is that, like, balls, as in bollocks? - 23:03:18 on 11 Jul 98 GMT

lumpy:I find little difference in modern day theists and ancient ones in that they seem to explain away those things that are really just a result of random circumstance by ascribing them to a little more sophisticated form of the sun, wind, or thunder gods. - 1:35:23 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

JOETTE- The new series of OZ started tonight! - 3:34:30 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:LUMPY- Your right! - 3:36:08 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Michelle:I have a question. Why is it that people get sooo hostile about the existence of God?? I am not asking this to be offensive. I'm just so curious. I mean, why can't an atheist just say " I don't believe, end of story". Why must there be this raging hostility?? Even if you disagree with someone, why soooooo extremely angry?? I used to be somewhat of an atheist. I admit that what I thought were ignorant Christians did bug me, but I didn't go crazy about it and turn to hostility!! I just questioned, and studied. It just seems that people get sooo angry over this subject, why this subject?? I mean, even people who differ politically don't get like this. I have seen some angry political arguments, but Its easier to be in a room with a Republican and a Democrat than an Atheist and a Christian! Why can't the atheists just have a debate without freaking out? WHy can't they just agree to disagree? anyone? - 4:51:02 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----Michelle-----That is a good question Michelle, It IS quite strange why atheists get so angry about the existence of God. If He didn't exist, they would laugh Him off like they do Santa Clause or any other fairy tale. But their anger comes because He DOES exist. If you carefully note what the Scriptures say you will understand why they have this anger. Note that Romans 8:7 says that the "carnal mind" or "...the mind set on the flesh is HOSTILE towards God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." Atheists have "carnal minds." Notice also in James 4:4 that we are told that atheists (as well as all other unbelievers) are spiritual "adulteresses." Spiritual adulteresses are those who have abandoned their first love - God - and who now have another lover - Satan and the world. So we are told that that friendship with the world is HOSTILITY to God, and that whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. If any atheists is fortune enough to get saved by God's grace, this enmity is removed (Ephesians 2:15-16). ----- All atheists and all other non believers worship satan regardless of what any of them will say. A fundamental principle of creation is that all humans must worship God or satan. We cannot do otherwise. Therefore we are told: "No one can serve two masters; for either he will HATE the one or LOVE the other, or he will hold to the one and DESPISE the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Mammon, which is of the world, is the means by which all atheists and other heathens worship satan. - 6:29:39 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..atheists don't get angry over the existence of god. They get angry over blowhards such as yourself who refuse to answer questions asked of them, fail to support any scientific evidence they (you) purport to have, and angry over the fact that people such as yourself come in this room spewing bigotry and prejudice. You have a wide variety of pages set aside to discuss your god, but you won't go there, because even to the other fundamentalist christians, you are a little bit over the wall. You refuse to have any sort of two sided, logical discussion. You hate people, and you want most of society to be put to a painful death. So if you are treated with hositility, it is because you get what you give. I too believe you receive some sort of sexual gratification from your pontificating. - 6:57:45 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:RTL- T'aint no god, hence no existence to get angry about. It's really very simple, but alas, not as simple as you. - 7:12:15 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

PUGGLES::Just to say I'm here but my e-mail may be slow... (sorry to use your page like a message board ;) - 7:27:48 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

PUG:same problem this end - 7:58:03 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

PUG:this end is futile, so n'night :* - 8:11:26 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Puggles:Okay, n'night ;* - 8:15:27 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Michelle: I'm not entirely convinced that it's the existance of God that is the issue, but as a christian I may be out of the ball park. What is at issue, for me at least, is the incredible, utterly barbaric and bloody history of THE CHURCH. No politician or party has ever been responsible for so much slaughter, repression, control or mindless bloodshed. There are no words to decribe just how vile that history is, and it is still going on. Many white supremacists proclaim that they do what they do as righteous and christian. The furthest thought from the church's collective 'mind' is that the toughest job human beings can face is to love our neighbours as we care about, and have regard for, and love ourselves. The double speak of the church is that if others wont do what you believe to be right, kill 'em. Anyone looking in at that has to conclude that if there is a god at the head of that church then he is a total barbarian for allowing anything so screwed up, fucked up, and barbaric to come into being. Getting out of our individual or collective prams about all of that is, I think, entirely justified. - 9:12:09 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:RTL: Please note my response above. The very scriptures you quote from have produced the most hostile and bestial behaviour on this planet. It is prudent to be wary of wielding a thing until you understand it. - 10:55:42 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..have you ever asked yourself this: "An atheist doesn't believe in a god, so would an atheist believe in, and follow, a devil?". If you have one iota of intelligence (which is unlikely) then you would know the answer to that question. Your satan is just another part of your mythology, again with no evidence of existence, therefore how can you say (or know as fast as you state) that I or my collegues believe and follow satan's doings? Again, another example of how ignorant you are on the subject. - 14:20:45 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

"mail in" is working fine, but can't send anything out. Working on the problem - 14:22:15 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

lunch:pram = baby carriage, perambulator ( ie. a small web chat carriage in which a BABY is pushed about). Simple by unpretended art... - 14:36:47 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MICHELLE- Somewhat of an atheist? or...Somewhat of an xtian? or..Somewhat like RTL? I don't hear a whole lot of anger form atheists here. It's the xtians that believe in, for example, the death penalty (and if that's not negative agression fueled by anger, I don't know what else is?)or some other god-inspired crime against humanity. When delusions of others have an effect on me, I balk, as I have every right to do. My aggression is at least channeled in the proper direction. - 20:33:32 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

William Watkins, central PA:RTL: Let us remember that the scriptures to which you subscribe so absolutely have little weight. They remain, as always, the opinions of men, not the ultimate truths of the universe. The Bible is a loose collection of unrelated books written millennia ago; while some chapters may have relevance today, many others illustrate nothing more than the profound ignorance of men in a pre-scientific age. I would caution you to take any biblical dogma with a grain of salt. Remember the source of the writing (an archaic theologian); the audience (illiterate peasants); and the purpose of the argument (to gain followers, hence power). To have faith in the ancient Middle-eastern writings of the Bible is as arbitrary as having faith in, say, the Canterbury Tales. And to those who so zealously countered RTL's tenets: while most of you, thankfully, refuse to allow his fundamentalist propaganda, I would nevertheless urge you to refrain from name-calling. You'd be surprised how much it undermines what you are saying. - 22:49:16 on 12 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:William Watkins--What you say about the bible is inarguably true. You have made an honest, objective assessment of the validity of the Bible, but to one whose conceptual frmamework is for the most part--entirely dependent on the acceptance of the Bible a being infallible--the propet of them sharing your objective view is virtually impossible. Also, had you witnessed the initial posts of RTL--you would have seen him as him entering this chattroom as maelstrom of personal attacks, insults and wild, sweeping accusations based on flagrant misconceptions and just down right ignorance and above all, prejudice. There were a few who attempted to engage in some form of comprehensive discussion, leaving the insults aside. RTL showed no interest whatsover in engaging any discourse, but rather to preach, insult, and continue to argue implementing what I would consider to be the most logically flawed pile of nonsense I have ever witnessed. This situation has been brought to his attention on several occaisions, but his penchance of not integrating with any of the responses directed to him. He continues to preach, insult, slander--at what you are seeing here is the result of how he presents himself showing no respect whatsoever for any person's, beliefs, arguments, explanations--all actions that were initiated by him, from his very first appearance in this room. - 0:01:52 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>Today we shall spend time in ward "man is manmade." You will correctly guess by the name of this ward that there is something seriously spiritually awry with the patients in it. You will note that all of the patients appear to be educated, but they have the fatal disease of atheism. They were raised with that awful disease. >>>>Now before we enter this ward, make sure you wear you rubber gloves, aprons, masks and glasses. Now notice the pitiful condition of the eyes of every one of the patients. Notice the awful stench of the green and yellow pus running from their eyes. The awful disease of atheism has done that to them. Do you see the awful condition of that patient over there? His name is PapaSam. Look at that patient besides him, his name is Peter. Oh Look there! Her name is Joette.>>>>Now what I want each of you to do for the rest of the period is adopt a patient, and I want you to work one-on-one with them to observe their awful condition.>>>>>Student #10, why are you crying? "I don't understand TEACHER. What terrible effects atheism has had on the patient I adopted! Should a blind man ask for evidence of the existence of that which he cannot see. What if that which he cannot see cannot be monitored by any faculty except sight and proof cannot be given to him otherwise? Should he conclude that those things do not exist simply because he cannot himself see them? When those things are described to him by people who can see, should he regard their descriptions as fairy tales? Atheism has totally deceived him. Doesn't he understand that a blind man must accept a lot of things by faith simply because he cannot see them and he may not be able to monitor them otherwise?">>>>>Student #10, he will never understand that unless he is cured of atheism. What you have described is one of the awful effects of the disease of atheism. You will not be able to effect a cure yourself. Not even education can effect a cure. Education only compounds the problem as you can see. Only God, the One atheism causes them to reject can effect a cure if He is pleased to do so.>>>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 3:12:25 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...central MB:WWcPA- It's of no concern to me what anyone thinks of what I have to say or to whom I "call a name" although I have yet to have any type of discussion with the deluded RTL. Whether one lives by the bible or not does not actually determine if he/she believes in god, a god, a goddess etc. Are you atheist? - 3:12:46 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--TEACHER---Oh please never leave this site. You conduct the most hilarious lessons I have ever experienced! - 3:23:07 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:TEACHER. First of all, your name is a self-imposed misnomer. A teacher is one who imparts knowledge. I have yet to see you do so. Children are born atheists, in that their minds have no conception of any gods, devils, fairies, elves or other creatures of the imagination. The minds of children are free of racist or religious prejudices. In the words of the song from the "Tales of the South Pacific" based on Michener's novel - "You've gpt tp be taught to hate and fear, you've got to be carefully taught." Your venemous spoutings are not based on original thinkng by you. They are based on what was taught you. You are undoubtedly passing them on to the next generation in your family. That is the only "teaching" you do. You parrot the words of others. You have to resort to quotes from your bible to say something, and very selective ones at that. Your bible condones slavery, incest, genocide, adultery, the slaughter of children and rape. I don't expect to make you see the light of day by my posting. You are too far gone. I really feel sorry for you, but I don't hate you. I leave hatred to the theists such as yourself. - 4:33:51 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

piracy:One basic is salt. A one word definition is transmutation. Let the student beware of the subtle attacks and deceptions that he will experience, carefully testing the truth of all with whom he speaks. - 6:15:48 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

piracy:An underminer does weaken or destoy gradually. - 6:21:09 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:"Education only compounds the problem as you can see." Therein lies the crux of RTL/TEACHER's philosophy. It's like "mushroom management": keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit. - 10:29:09 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->WILLIAM..it never fails to amaze me how someone swoops in and accuses those of us who have been attempting to fly the flag of freedom from religion of undermining ourselves by name calling. Just as we implore theists to educate themselves, the same should be said to you. Go back to the beginning of RTL's tenure here, and carefully follow the discussion, before you put the rest of us in a position where we have to defend ourselves against you. Educate, educate, educate. - 11:05:56 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:KEITH<<>>WOW! I am quit positive that I have never heard a 'christian' admit the attrocities which have been done in the name of 'god'. I am also shocked to think that someone who has knowledge of christian history still places faith in what atheists consider a mythology. Is there something/anything that points to you that a certain jesus is the son of a 'god'? Do you percieve there to be any historic accuracy of the bible? - 12:51:32 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: One of the high interest ongoing newsstorys concerns quality teachers. In a report on the MA teacher situation where quality is down marked by teachers who can't pass an exam for that job. A story written by Thomas Sowell goes,"why are dumb teachers dangerous? Because nature abhors a vacuum. If teachers'minds aren't filled with knowledge and understanding, they'll be filled w/other things--the kind of things that appeal to shallow minds." That view attaches itself magnetlike to all visiting theists. There is no godthing, if you say there is where did you see it last and who cares for it now? " - 14:55:44 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: sounds like you TX are gonna either loose or have to dig a bit deeper in your pocket books if the TX catholics want to pay the multi million dollar bill for the horney confused{?} priests. One of the catholic topdogs says one o'the diocese may be bankrupt. A story I jist heard says a doz.alter boys had to polish the bishops knob and other wierd sexual releases are being compensated for this religious depravity. Can any imagine what the godthing was doing at any point in time when this was to, and as it happened to those young fellas? - 15:27:44 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: On 60.min last eve, they ran a segment of the So.baptist opposition to Disney that the s.b. says promotes anti-xtian stuff and some other stuff. The Disney rep.said the diz.company sees tolerance and understanding as greater wider good and the s.b.o'course sounded as stupid as may RTL here.{I inscribe "may"'cuz RTL may change for the good} The 60 min.rep also did not ask any digging questions of the s.b. references to biblical sources for the s.b.point of view. That veering action was so plain on the 60 min.part that the only explanation has to be that 60 min.was only keeping the natives from becoming upset. - 15:55:12 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Henry:CARL^^^^^^ In discussing vaccums, waveforms are intimately tied to characteristics like electric charge. Sometimes electron change does not vary(1.602 X (-19) coulombs. In this case the virtual photons appear out of the vaccum and act to readjust the system. What you have is stress spawned and by thoses photons created, the stress is resolved. In a question, is a vaccuum similiar to a religious believer's vacuity or the person's lack of thought? - 17:26:19 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Henry:^^^^^^^^ In speaking of a religous believer's way of thinking, it is similiar to absolute zero (minus 459.67 degrees Fahrenheit or minus 273.15 Celsius); it is the hypothetical point at which a substance would have no motion and no heat. But there is the law of thermodynamics of course. A religious belief is certainly not laudable. - 17:42:48 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Steven :CARL<<>>I think is funny that the catholic churches owes that large sum of mula! They are talking about selling vast amounts of "un-used" property to come up with the money. Also, the so-called heads of the catholic church released an apology to the boy's that were molested. Whats this, the catholic church made a mistake and it didn't take them 500 years to apologize, or admit they were wrong. By the way, it was 110 degrees F yesterday. OUUUCCCCHH! - 18:05:40 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

uhhhh, jeez, i really masacred that first sentence. hehe - 18:12:31 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Toni..... green eggs &:In terms of wrecking the comforting balance of cause and effect, Schrodinger's cat threatened in the same magnitude. A half a cat breathing and a half a cat croaked but quantum mechanics must answer "To fucking bad!". Memory can be as pungent as actuality. - 18:23:05 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:HENRY: Those electrodynamic theories of the very small don't relate to the theist thought. Theist thought concerns an impossible question- in the beginning, for which theists use an impossible answer, god. - 18:25:19 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Stephen: Bye the bye, still working on those references. As it happens I do believe there is a great deal of historical accuracy in the bible. Whether anyone considers the bible to be mythology or not is their own business, and I hope I respect that, particularily here, where I could be considered an interloper. The very bloodiness and mind bending complexity of the book alone makes it a book of intense worth, for me. I do not believe anyone in their right mind would ever invent such a book. Why? It hardly lends itself to taking it at face value, though I pity those that do. I do believe that it is a fair representation of the mythology and growth of a nation and its relationship to its god. - 19:01:37 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:HENRY: While a discussion o'the stuff you mention could be interesting in and of itself, and I enjoy such exchanges but at this site, I enjoy instead dealing with the theistic toads. - 19:08:56 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: It appears that KIETH 'recognises' history in the bible. That he relates people names and places whereat people events happened in the bible merely means he has an understanding of humans, on one hand. In the other hand, however, he places religious belief and of course both hands serve him. He does not say, like other thiest, where is the godthing? As for the history does KIETH accept it in relation to what he knows of other history or as history itself? Has KIETH directed 'the mind towards the enunciation of sound and correct judgement on all matters before it?' it being his mind? - 19:56:26 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:KIETH: I usually don't directly address religious believers, they're too dumb, but it seems like you probably figger religious belief comes with or has a theologic umbrella to shed off any big thought showers. Here is quick short ditty not threatening and very to the point, you may like it. - 20:10:33 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:KEITH<<>>Ok, if you read any mythology you will find the same incredible stories, miriacles etc. Read the Greek mythologies, or the Asian mythologies, or the Native American Mythologies. They are all filled with incredible feats, gods with supernatural powers, battles between good and evil on the cosmic scale. Who would believe that Athena sprung from the eye of Apollo. Who would believe that the 'great spirit', or Kali, or Mythra etc. etc. I think you will find that the story of Merlin and Camelot hold many more facts than anything in the bible. Anyway, it appears that we disagree on this subject, oh well! :] The bible is mearly a hodge podge of many different religions that existed in the area when the bible was written. Egyptian, Symarian, Italian, Greek, etc. etc. - 20:25:29 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Carl: I have learnt in my several decade to take as I find. I shall address you personally, if that is a problem for you, please let me know. The physical historical veracity of the bible can easily be checked out by a simple perusal of a map. Many of the events of the old testament have left remains etc, that can again be simply checked. As to the hidden world of spiritual things, I have no way or desire to persuade you one way or the other. I believe it is for each of us to seek our own journey. I enjoy this site and the views expressed here. Not so sure about some of the contributors, but there y'go. - 20:28:22 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...money talks even to god:CARL- Yes, I saw that 60 Minutes program. Isn't it amazing that the one church leader won't support the boycott because most of the members of his church work at Disney and ABC carries his bullshit program? Maybe the lord told him it was bad business to boycott? LOL! - 20:38:52 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...sheesh! I hope NOT!:HANK- I DO hope that your not bringing up that Law of Thermodynamics thing again! - 20:41:54 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:KIETH: Of spiritual things I hold no confusions, it can be only the natural doing of the mind, for humans. How does it live? Religious folks attribute it to a supernatural thing and its\that whatever, I see that spirit thing as a natural passing on of knowledge, like a relay baton. It goes from one generation to the next like that relay baton. All live better because of what our ancestors have given us. Our offspring can live better because of what we can give them. I have not seen nor do I know how a supernatural whatever relates or can relate to the natural thing that I am, how does that happen? - 21:03:24 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH...I'm confused. From reading your posts, and your website, I assumed you are an atheist like many of us here, but Carl and Steven have been asking you questions related to the bible, which is all well and good, but I think they think you are a theist. So, in plain English, are you a good witch, or a bad witch? - 21:06:09 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL/STEVEN..I am with Keith on whether or not a person such as the like of "Jesus" existed. While I can not prove it anymore than any of us can, history would suggest that there was a young upstart who did question Roman authority, travelled the earth spewing his propaganda and the like. However, unlike Keith, I find little historical value in the bible itself, as any hint of what was transpiring during those times has been given a personal translation by those that buy into the mythology, as some events occured that could not be scientifically explained at those times. - 21:11:21 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I thought it noteworthy of that one fellow- not going along w/the boycott, for not simply saying, "the bible is wrong." Yea, that ol'boy meant only to not upset the natives; and nothing more, after all his livelyhood, his bread and butter could at stake! It is also noteworthy that the early church was agin'plans and efforts to expand and improve the medium of exchange as something of evil. Now they- religious folk, want as much of it as possible. - 21:36:22 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Joette: I am a christian, so I guess I am a very bad witch, and a trespasser on this site, and a transvestite, and my best mate in the whole world is gay and many of the folks we hang out with and a whole other bunch of stuff that you probably wouldn't want to hear. Anyway, for what it's worth, I guess I'm on the wrong side of the fence to y'all but I enjoy the site and would like to continue to do so. However if it is prefered that I butt out in future I will respect your wishes with regret. - 22:10:59 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Carl:I do not personally believe that the activity of mind is in any way 'spiritual', so the passing down of knowledge from generation to generation is simply a use of very human faculties of, speech, vision, intellect and emotion etc. They are simply the functions of sentience. The existence of a spiritual 'whatever' is something that can be said to operate beyond that which we undertake with our five senses. That is something that one has to grapple with, or not, depending on ones own pedelections. It has nothing to do with the physical person of Jesus, the bible, or anything else that pertains to the physical world. The dictionary uses words such as, immaterial, incorporeal, pertaining to the soul or inner nature, derived from or pertaining to God. And any proof on that score I have no desire or need to embark on. - 22:30:15 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

dinner:Rememeber the word simple! It is an assaualt on normative belief patterns(attack on the status-quo). It is terrorrism that depicts the careful consideration of consciousness, It is simple realism, but I was told to shove my shit up my ass. This simple is no toad but will. - 22:32:01 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:dinner: Norm me no normative, Pleeze. It is the normative process that allows on person or people to persecute another person or people. That is what religion is all about. Scary stuff. - 22:44:52 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH..I assumed your sexual orientation from your website, so you have provided us (at least me) with a bit more information than necessary. However, I don't envy you there, as the church still has some discomfort on where you belong in the human race. As far as leaving because you are an xtian, I hope you don't, as you are one of those rare beings that we see on this page who is interested in friendly dialogue. - 22:46:54 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KEITH..but before I entice you into a sense of security, I might mention that I don't agree with your politics! But that's for another discussion page, I guess LOL! - 22:48:46 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:KIETH: The mind thing explains accounts for the electrochemical process of that whatever that is human. It is a word of\for nothing beyond that action. Your preference for 'sentient' seems to have a philosophic implication that apparently confuses that electrochemical process to instead refer to that unspeakable moment of things. Here, I oft'refer to the word 'toothache' it is not the thing happening in ones mouth, but we all know it nonetheless as something indescribable. As for the five senses thats very grade school stuff, I have read some writer\thinker stuff that say the senses are many more than that simplicity. But you head in the correct direction, it gets more relevant than just the brush off you attempt. - 22:48:51 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I hadn't cehcked the site maybe later I will but I found the KEITH interesting to exchange a dialogue. But, now it seems visible as why KEITH prefers a spritual to matter. I found myself wondering along the lines that I wondered about C.DRAKE. Later. - 23:02:26 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Keith:Carl: I do not 'head in the correct direction' if by definition that means I will ultimately agree with you. I find that a bit too religious in its implications. I cannot feel that the electromechanical process of feeling a toothache quite qualifies as a spiritual experience. - 23:07:01 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

breakfast anyone?:. - 23:07:32 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

shit fuck bum bugger - 23:08:27 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

dinner:Keith.. I have been trained as a dumb oak too. For you really refuse to use a metaphor for mere literatature. Your Badb insists that symbols must cause events as well as private epiphanies*** To the others, remember the dates this cat has given for a certain person's birthdate. It is the tactic of ontological anarchism. Again be weary of this cat. I am sorry I used the names of Hank and Toni for I only tried to mimic him as he has done while desecrating my beliefs. Though, for MANY months he has been the persecutor without logical backing. A little esoteric help from a practising Driud, Pam. Please don't thank me or him , because it has magickal significance; this cat loves THE CENSOR too. Look in the rehash about him using the censor-the proof is there. - 23:13:33 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Adam Silly Gay Savior....:Jumpin' Jesus, Joette****** Again I ask the question—-- Of course we know that Jesus was not the son of god or born of a virgin, etc., but if no such person existed, say, as a simple rebel against Rome or the Jewish leadership, the WHO'S ASS DO I KEEP KICKING? "So be sure when you step. Step with care and great tact and remember that Life's a Great Balancing Act." Seuss, Oh, the Places You'll Go! 23:skidoo - 23:17:14 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Sorry for the toady behavior for I am only trying to help. I know as atheists you do not believe in magick , but this David is very trained in his form. Good-bye from a misunderstood Druid. - 23:17:52 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM..Keith is not David. - 23:30:38 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..'twas not I that proclaimed that "Jesus" did not exist. Besides, you should be kicking him in the hands or feet, it would probably hurt more...(Jays stunk up Detroit this weekend - how did the Mets do?) - 23:32:40 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM...I used to believe in magic...but then I blew a paycheque in Salem, and nothing worked... - 23:33:58 on 13 Jul 98 GMT

John the logger.:TO ALL DRUIDS. Enough of your 'druid speak'. If you have something to say, say it in English. Maybe the trees know what you are saying but you don't make sense to me. - 0:08:45 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

the chaos continues and we are dumb - 0:10:14 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Oh, how it displays the censor in plain writing; yes it takes as it finds as it has stated. - 0:16:55 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

It does not have a problem with censor; it keeps asking if there is a problem with what it has. - 0:19:57 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Banishmment from the group will be accomplished by laughter, but really it must be more careful before it shoots itself in the censor. - 0:34:26 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...:BIG JOHN- Now your barkin up the right tree! - 3:15:18 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- LOL! LOL! I love that sense of humor! - 3:16:25 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene...TV Listings:There's some kind of special on CBS on Wednesday evening about the "Children of god". This may be more fun than 60 Minutes! - 3:18:29 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>>Today we will enter a boring facet of our study of the diabolical disease of atheism. What I want each of you to do today is to go to any atheist you know and specifically challenge them to show any kind of proof that the Almighty God DOES NOT exist. One of the things atheists do is try to challenge true Christians to prove the existence of God. So, your mission is to challenge them to prove the opposite. I want some of you to enter ward "man is man made" and challenge Peter, PapaSam, Marlene, Joette and etc. Then, if they should answer, I want you to pay close attention to their answers. You will note that they (as well as all others) will be unable to intelligently, specifically and truthfully answer your challenge.>>>>>A challenge to the atheist: PROVE THE NON EXISTENCE OF GOD BY WHATEVER MEANS YOU THINK YOU CAN!>>>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 6:00:31 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:To any atheist in this ward: Please click on my name to send me a VOICE or TEXT message. My ID number which is: 6687405. If you send a voice message, please use the REGULAR number. THANK YOU. - 6:13:49 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Enter into your browser the following URL to send a message to ROBERT T. LEE: http://www.pagoo.com/send.htm - 6:17:40 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:TEACHER...there in no god because I have been playing the same lottery numbers of 20 years, and have still not won the jackpot. - 10:49:32 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:RTL..anything I have to say to you will be done here, so please leave your personal addresses to yourself. - 10:52:09 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE---Prove that there is no such thing as a Gloodyslooperty. I say there is. - 12:05:52 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE--Prove that there isn't a Drompedellap. I say there is. - 12:07:32 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T>LEE--Prove that there isn't a Fuddhunwertyupper. I say there is. - 12:08:45 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE--Prove that there isn't a Huntpumpsatty. I say there is. - 12:10:06 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE--On my shoulder lives an invisible blue Fairy named Zaso. He however has revealed himself only to me. Zaso is responsible for causing he rain to fall. Prove that he doesn't exist. - 12:12:45 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE--Amazing as his may sound, but you are even more stupid than I thought you were. - 12:17:38 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:TEACHER/RTL<<>>Bahahahahahahahahahahaha, *breath*, bahahahahahahahaha! - 12:26:54 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

STUDENT:>>>>Now -- now -- Peter and Joettte, is that the best you can do to answer our challenge? C'mon Peter and Joette, give us a better answer than that. Use you SCIENTIFIC minds - use you best LEARNING. Address our question intelligently. - 12:37:51 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PROFESSOR:-- Good morning class. Today we will be discussing the tragic and hopeless RTL disease. AS you know, one of the early symptoms of this malady is a nearly complete loss of comprehension skills. The victim seems to be awake and cognizant, but actually cannot follow even the simplest of statements. Oddly though, he will think that not only does he fully understand, but has a special deeper understanding than everyone else. In the latter stages of the disease just prior to total flake out, the victim will actually believe that anyone who does not share this "special understanding" is reprehensible, and should be stamped out. Oddly, the RTL disease sufferer becomes convinced that he may be able to "enlighten" others by insulting them and telling them he thinks they should be killed. Sadly there is no successful treatment currently since electic shock treatments have fallen out of favor. The best that can be done is to keep them away from sharp objects and nod occassionally so they will think they still have some effective verbal skills. The final stage of the disease is a belief on the victim's part that he is in communication with supreme beings and speaks for them. Tomorrow we will be discussing people who use three names and call themselves "we." ----G---- - 13:06:56 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STUDENT--You just don't get it do you? I am using my learning--and my scientific mind. You see, you aren't asking an intelligent question, and that question cannot be answered intelligently. I thought that may have gotten the hint when I asked you to prove the non-existence of all those funny-sounding names...but no......ok robert .......I'll give you a little hint...................................................................................................................................................................................( whisper ) Robert--it is impossible to prove a negative....let me repeat this slowly now so you will understand.....it.....is......impossible ( got that so far? )...to......prove........a.........negative. - 13:52:43 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:Ah C'mon Peter - you are groping man. A descendant of the ape should be able to do better than that! However, by you coping my pattern of communication in this ward by calling yourself "professor" as if addressing a "class" is encouraginging. - 13:55:12 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--It IS kind of funny, isn't it? And if the teacher didn't act like such an obnoxious asshole right from the beginning, hey maybe, someone would show him a little bit of respect too. - 13:56:08 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:PETER<<>>RTL has a son. Can you imagine how fucked up his kid is. - 13:57:37 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT--I'm not the professor, bird brain - 13:57:45 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--I'll bet he's smarter though! *LOL* - 13:59:13 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----Peter-----If I have made a mistake about you calling yourself "professor," I beg uour pardon. - 14:07:42 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Steven :RTL<<>>Say dude, how do manage to fit a PC in the trailer of your's. You come onto this site and call us diseased, and ingnorant etc., when it is you claiming that this thing called god exists. You once stated that all of us atheist were raised atheists etc. etc. Well I was raised, as repugnant as it is, a christian. There is not a group of people that are more ingnorant, racist, homophobic, and unmoral as christians are. You prove that to us every day. Your god was made up Robert, by other men that were extremly ingorant. What has your god or religion EVER done for humankind but destroy and cause suffering. If is very understandable why people are rejecting your destructive mythology in greater numbers every day. The funny thing is that you have stated more than once that you approve of the death, or killing of atheists, or "pagan" believers (which include I'm sure Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's, etc. etc.). How many atheists are running around saying, "Kill all christians, they are what is evil in this world", NONE. You know why? It is because we realize that the majority of christians are programed/brainwashed from birth to believe in that drivel you call christianity. To put faith in something that with out any doubt does not exist. It has not been proven in in the 2000 yrs since your religion was made up, and it will never be proven because jesus, god, satan, angels and the whole mythology are man made. Made by men who make mistakes, who do not know everything, and are without any doubt NOT supernatural. The problem with the bible and your religion is that you construe the words in the bible to mean whatever you wish them to be, about something that exists only in your head. Killing people for a religion is, if anything is, evil. I won't even go into the hundreds of inaccuracies, the historic facts the disprove the bible, the fact of no evidence that jesus existed etc. etc. It is simply enough to say that for your integrity, I would do a little research. What you find may suprise you. If it doesn't then you may be far to gone for any hope. Maybe a padded cell or a nice comfy shrink chair would benefit you the most. - 14:24:52 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:PETER: So if you and others similar to you are decendants o'apes- why r apes still here, while RTL and those similar to him are decendants o'god{s}- if RTL assumes an opposite and knows the godthing as dad, then RTLs family is one sick bunch. {To see this point in its fullest refer to any bible of your choice} - 14:29:31 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: Reason and thought do not exist to RTL as for him there is only that stuck record thing in his thoughts- as this may be, that goes god god god god god god god god god god god god, etc. No other input for thought has any meaning it is god god god god god god god god god god god god god, and of course he thinks god is in his life and that he lives for god, it goes god god god god god god god god god god god god god........etc. Isn't this inane? - 15:01:09 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER--:--CARL--Exactly. The greatest threat to RTL is to integrate any new knowledge, as this poses a threat to his god. ANY knowledge will--and when one witnesses his non-stop slothful manouvring, it becomes more obvious with each post he makes that he is consciously, or sub-consciously ( or somewhere in his consciousness )aware of this fact. I am sure his next move will be to DENY that it IS impossible to prove a negative, and to mock those who assume it is--and that God somehow is exempt from these parameters. Or that the burden of proof lies with both the person making the positive AND the negative assertion. It has to be. - 15:48:03 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----Peter-----Thanks for admitting before all that its impossible to prove the non existence of God. - 15:56:13 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T. LEE--Yes it is impossible to prove the non-existence of God, or a blue fairy or a Drompedellap or a Fuddhunwertyupper or a Huntpumpsatty etc or Santa Claus, tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, The Boogeyman, Leprechauns, the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, The Abominable Snowman, Godzilla, Rodan, Gorgo ..............so until you prove there IS a God--the notion of "god" remains within the same realm as all these strange critters. That is why the burden of proof lies with the person making the positive claim. Are you entertaining any thoughts of maybe doing this sometime in the near future? - 16:56:52 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:PETER: That was tooooooo, toooooo easy. - 16:59:12 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----TO ALL YOU ATHEISTS-----One day you will bow to MY GOD - God Most High. You may never admit His existence at any point during your lifetime in this world. But I guarantee one day you will. Because it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." (Roman 14:11). "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even these who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so. Amen." (Revelation 1:7). I'd hate to be in your shoes on that day! - 17:22:42 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:PETER<<>>ROFL! I don't think RTL knows how big of a fool he is making of himself. hehe, if a god/goddess/diety did exist he would be horribly shamed to have such a moron representing him/her/it. - 17:24:05 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:RTL<<>>your petty god fits you to perfection. If yaweh did exist, he would laugh at you just as we do. Can you imagine an entity banishing someone to eeeeetttuurnalll haaaeellla for not believing in 'him'. hehe, please, I don't think any research could help, you need to look up the QUACK and you guy's could stroke each other on who is the most demented. - 17:30:05 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:RTL: What is a day where is that day in this spinning ever changing cosmos? Try as you may you are not even the same as when the suns rays first bathed you this morning. So what is a day? Is it one revolution of this planet, is that really all that is important to your godthing? You don't know and you don't care, you are the only one here who intends to bend the will of others here to your way. It is only you until you can say or show, where is your godthing? - 17:35:40 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam WHAT KIND of SHITHEAD...?:Pardon my impulsiveness, but I just logged on and "teacher's" post, daring us to priove a negative, is at the top of my 30 scroll. I did not wait to pan down the list, and I'm SURE the denizens already have lambasted this display of intellectual bankruptcy, but I ask anyway, WHAT KIND OF FUCKING MORON DEMANDS THE PROOF OF NEGATIVE EXISTENCE? To be sure, the pathetic prof has posted much stupidity in these annals, but this certainly must embarrass even his fellow believers in myth. Hey, loser, my god is Dr. Seuss; can you prove HIS nonexistence? (I refer here to His ongoing Reign and not merely the death of his recent human incarnation). - 17:37:08 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam FAIRY NICE POST:ˆˆˆˆˆˆPeter Pandemic: Can't shake the Blue Fairy thing, eh? Now you even have a pet name? Is that derived from Led Zeppelin? What gives? Inquiring minds want to no trespassing. - 17:40:31 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE, TEACHER, and the rest of of your fellow believers. You have a problem. You claim your god is "Almighty God". This leaves one of two possibilities. Either he agrees with you about how to deal with atheists or he doesn't. If he agreed with you, being "Almighty", he would make all of the atheists vanish from the face of the earth. Since we are still here it is obvious that your "Almighty God" does not agree with your point of view and that you are misrepresenting him. The only logical alternative is that your "Almighty God" is a figment of your imagination. A baby is born an atheist, without any beliefs. It is indoctrinated with the poison of religion. As the song in "Tales of the South Pacific" goes: "You've got to be taught to hate and fear, you've got to be carefully taught." That's where racism and bigotry come from. They are taught. So tell me why your "Almighty God" doesn't just make all atheists disappear? Does he really need a couple of piss poor specimens like you to mouth off in his behalf? - 17:40:44 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam BOW to THIS! ¨¨¨¨:Hey, Robert T. Leaves Much To Be Desired ÝÝÝÝÝ What's with this "one day" bullshit? Your "god" is a pansy, chicken-shit yaller bastard who repeatedly hides whenever I challenge him to a contest. You must be embarrassed to worship such a pussy patriarch, the limp-wristed ruler. I have the power to kill your god at will, and your shivering savior knows it. Bow down to me, you delusional moron! Yeah, "one day" monkeys will fly out of my butt!! - 17:49:29 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOD MOST HIGH? MORE LIKE THEIST MOST HIGH?:ççççç Hi. I'm God M. High. Are you boys behaving yourselves? Mmm-kay, I'm just gonna' go over here now, mmm-kay? - 17:51:48 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Which of the gods wasn't havin'a good day in Ireland? P'SAM has it right that kids are born atheist and made theistic, but what does this development mean, for people like RTL? Who's god is right in those kids death? Someone really needs to inform those religious believers about the prospects of no god. To be of god must simply mean, a believer of the godthing can kill and destroy and still be blessed w/eternal life! But that won't work who or what can these eternals kill? - 19:07:01 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

The moon still dances for us now as she did then, and so the wonder of Nature remains as awesome as in those lost days. The Druids may be gone, but their magic is not. It may yet emerge from the earth again, if we remember her and love her again. - 20:40:39 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette..ranting...:-->CARL...do you think RTL would bring up what happened in Ireland as a fair example of what religion can do to innocent people in his "classroom"? Of course not. Why would he ever associate the death of 3 young children with the teachings of "his god"? Makes me sick. Even though I am a pacifist, this time I think RTL should have his way, and all those protestant bastards sulking because they can't walk in a certain area should be shot and pissed on. - 20:53:12 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..you might be interested in what RTL aka TEACHER aka STUDENT aka ASSHOLE has to say about those that make the laws. - 21:00:57 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:(sorry, he has a "cheap" page, so I couldn't just URL the part I wanted you to see. Look under "Against Homosexuality". You may find you'll be out of a job, 'cause only god gets to make laws) - 21:05:14 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I read the CNN account that relayed what the clergy had to say to protect their god from having affiliation with that killing in Ireland. It was terrible. It was also mind numbing to see that anyone would refer to freedom as evil. RTL clearly represents one confused frighteningly ignorant point{less} of view. The only redeeming quality of RTL, he's gonna die and a godthing willin' he'll n'er reproduce. - 22:13:18 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam FUNNY, SHE DOESN'T LOOK DRUISH ***** :Actually, the moon doesn't "dance" the way she used to. Seems the moon is receding from earth at a rate of a few inches per year, and concomitantly is slowing in its orbit around earth (technically, the moon doesn't "orbit" the earth—it is large enough relative to earth that the two bodies both orbit their collective center of gravity, which I believe is a few miles beneath the earth's crust on the side facing the moon at any given moment). - 22:24:23 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Adam LIES, DAMNED LIES, and LAWYER LIES ****** :Jo-get it straight *** Please do not give people the impression that I am an attorney for a living. I have a law degree, and I do pro se litigation, but I am an editor by trade. As for lawmaking, let's see chicken-shit scaredy puss god try to repeal the law of my fist. Let's go, almighty mutha fucka, cuz you ain't all DAT. I'mma buss yo' assch! Mmm-kay? - 22:30:11 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ADAM. I'm sure that was a typo. You meant 'bust' not 'buss', right? - 22:45:18 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Darn took a second look at RTLs site, he done hosed someone did he? I saw his site reads that it is cared for by 'RTL and son', can it now be argued that that is evidence there is no god? it could begin with, what rational creator would allow someone as mentally heinous as RTL to continue in any way by any means? Perhaps that son ain't his pa. - 22:47:46 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..sorry, I don't do impressions. - 22:59:32 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Druid magic is the result of a strong and healthy awareness of nature, and the spirits and gods who live in nature. A Druid must understand the language that Nature uses to speak its wisdom. All else follows from that. Druid magic has a votive quality; magic is performed by appealing to the gods to perform a service in return for an offering. Mythic Druids often used trance-ecstacy to achieve their purpose as well. But in the myths very little attention is paid to summoning or controlling spirits and gods, instead, the Druids sought communication and communion. - 23:03:23 on 14 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..I'll axe for something then..:Well, I offer a dollar and I want it returned 10000000 fold. If it isn't returned it will be me a peeling the bark off that damned oak. - 3:40:09 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:ROBERT T. LEE--"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." (Roman 14:11). ,,,Well if this is the case, what are you worried about us atheists for, if we will all someday praise God? ( In which case I imagine we will all go to heaven ) So are you here to "warn" us? Why? Isn't it a good thing, in your view that everyone will praise God? Will former atheists be treated differently once they bend their knees and spout off all this crap? It won't matter what we do or say now, if this eventuality is inevitable. ( And apart from receiving a frontal lobotomy, I don't see how this could occur. ) But I am sure you will tell me to just wait and see. Well, I will wait and see--and I will see dick inasfar as your God is concerned. Dick on the proverbial stick. - 4:33:17 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam --> to the interposer as you interpolate :Given m distinct data points yi Rn, 1 j m on a regular grid with spacing h, and the corresponding data values fj = f(yj) a function F(y) interpolating f(y) can be obtained by taking the linear combination of m terms, each term being the product of the n sinc functions sinc [(y(k)-yj(k)) / h] (where y(k) and yj(k) are respectively the k-th components of y and yj). For uniform grids, the sinc functions properties imply that the interpolation conditions Fj = f(yj), 1 j m are satisfied if the combination coefficients are set to be equal to the data values (therefore not requiring parameter estimation). In this it is the case of scattered data points. We define an interpolating function in which the sinc functions terms have the form sinc[(y(k)-yj(k)) / h] , where h is a function of the distances among the data points . The combination coefficients are then computed by solving the m-dimensional linear system arising from the interpolations conditions. Finally we present the results of numerical experiments which show that the provided data approximation is quite good. You multivariate in the scattered and your will can't alter me with your censor as once again the tippet equalizer is foil.*** In mimic glare and inference the other one's a duplicate*** the queenly flux, eternal light*** or the light that never warms!!! - 8:19:31 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:It was not meant for any atheist here but a certain coyote in disguise multiplicity. - 8:23:57 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:In speaking of visible lights, this region of visible light ranges from 4.3 x 10 to the 14th Hz to about 7.5 x 10 to the 14th Hz. Visible light ranges from about 400nm. to about 700nm. Through experiments with viewers and physiological evidence, the human visual system is 3-dimensional. Really it is 'linear' combinations of 3 independent colours that can match any colour sensation. The amounts of light monochromatic are needed to produce any colour in the visible frequency. An important note is that a certain red curve r minus minus (?)? is negative from 438nm. to 546 nm. In this region, colours cannot be produced through a positive combination.*** Matter fields in anti-de Sitter space can be in stable equilibrium even when the potential energy is unbounded below, violating the weak energy condition. Hence, with negative cosmological consistent is at hands, there are more generating black holes. In this gravity, where the horizon can be a general, genus g Riemann surface, holes could have formed in the past (having survived evaporation of Hawkins). Also in terms of negative, there is no square root for -1 ; we call this an imaginary number and it used to suit itself in time, space, etc. - 8:55:45 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:PAM<<>>or should I say Spam! Not speaking for anyone else, but who cares. I can reach over one foot and grab me a good thick sna/lu6.2 book and do the same thing. Example: shows a verb sequence for conversation, but sequnece used for design. this coversation intitiation called a server. The RC=[MC_}SEND_ERROR codition remote state user defined remains allocated. OS/400 both interfaces 6.2 SAA design portable blah blah blah blah! The point is whats the point. No one gives a shit, so why spam the site with your text book bullshit. Are you some kind of christian in protest? - 12:22:18 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

GRAHAM CHAPMAN--:Bu' I don't loike SPAM! - 14:05:42 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: The confusion I generally refer to o'theist types concerns passages, as PETER mentions, its first composer a primitive human, may have said "every" to include all without distinction. But, there r those as RTL who can't ascertain that there are multiple distinctions and differences, without end, consequently for RTL of his ignorance in his ignorance,i.e., small mind, his ego can only condemn blindly foolishly stupidly every and all that "he, RTL" does not understand, which is also to him both his god and their- RTL and the godthing, enemy, ergo, confusion. Since that first composer, of PETERs passage, limitedly thunk it nothing of its forming experience exist. Things have moved on and changed. - 14:43:14 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Steven . I came back just to protect my Druidic tradition beliefs from the nameless false Druid who speaks of magick. That is all, just in the same instance as David/ Keith combination used Modern Egyptian ritual magic or the chaos form. Look back in the URL for proof of this. If I appear to sPam, I am sorry for this action for I was raised in an esoteric fashion which I have outlined some time ago. Agian , I came back to protect my magick equilibrium; I believe in the ways of magick and for the others who do not I do not give a shit either. Rest assured, I will not sPam anymore. My ancestors wre oppressed by judgemental ethics as I have outlined for some time with my Halloween reference. Excuse me for being an trained esoteric and if you would not mind I would also like to breathe respectfully. Life feeds on life but fear now that I am gone. And it is not back to an iron joke of Salem, either. - 14:59:57 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: Possibly of for realities, I notice that the eccentrics link themselves to either far-out or unaccountable ideas. KIETH preferred 'spirits' and PAM inscribes preferences for 'magic' see,"I believe in the ways of magic, etc" Such action it appears sets them into domains similar to the religious types of 'us' versus 'them'. Here note PAMs, "..I do not give a shit either." And as some here comprehend, any one of us can go a bit far with any point; or at least I do. But I do so to know or learn if its real or incorrect or just an eccentricity of me. - 16:41:04 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Carl. You have a preference but you just mask them with the lord o' flies in binding again and I'd peel the mask your wearing. It is the concept of knowing our human limitations. Your human just like me or can you tell me your an eccentric so labeled. It is really learning or just a plain pathetic mask. Remember of how you talked of answering the double negative. YES, it is routinely accomplished by life's partcipants??? As a matter of fact, I do give a shit about my magick and others for it is not bounded by the written word. I had to get this human acknowledgement off my chest; I accept it but the mask always tries to bind again.*** Don't believe it when he bit into her face it tasted like a fallen arch*** Her tongue moving now a guernsey cow*** Don't put your tongue on the bloody toothed written place*** yes, as a foot she is beautiful*** How we humans misunderstand each other! - 17:38:30 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Adam THAT'S THE VULGATE ***** :PapaSam Phillips ***** The word is "bust," but the line I typed was in the "urban contemporary" vernacular, in which "buss" would be an accurate pronunciation, up until the word "assch." From that point, it became South Park vernacular (Cartman + Mr. Mackey). Mmm-kay? - 17:48:31 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Adam LIGHTER DRUID æææææ:I heard that FOX is launching a sitcom about a nutty, irreverent nature worshipper—It's called the Druid Carey Show! Ar, ar! - 17:52:07 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:PAM: You are a bit to bizarre far too often, for at least me, to communicate and maintain a reasonable line of thought. You r maybe not RTLs' inanity but you r wierd. The only diff 'tween you n'RTL, you probably don't require anyone's death. - 18:14:23 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----Alas, how terrible it is for any people to be cursed with a spirit or possessed by a demon that twists, wrests and undermines every portion of the holy Scriptures. Such people can never know, understand and embrace truth, nor can they glorify God and do any good to or for their fellow man. Such is the awful curse that rests upon every atheist. The Scriptures has already made reference to these type people. It says they are untaught and and unstable and they distort the Scriptures to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). - 18:18:21 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:RTL. Yes, I am possed by fanatic christians everyday whom become self-appointed judges of Halloween traditions. Happy Halloweem and this legendary divorce is such a bore , one at Salem's lot. EXPLETIVE IN r and s Cummings and it remains in the written foot. - 18:29:06 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--RTL-- OK consider ourselves told. Now, why not let us worry about all horrible fate that will befall us? You apparently do not have to. Incidentally, it seems like your attempts to demonstate a God exists has failed miserasbly. And as a last resort--you trying frighten the non-believer for not believing in what scares the belovin' bejesus out of you, because your weak mind has been unable to detect the all the flaws associated with explaining the existence of God. However, an atheist has been successful in doing so. Again, it would be the same as if I threatened the wrath of Gwollybully on you if you didn't believe in him, and after all my attempts at trying to prove he existed failed as well.. Would that frighten you in any way? ......I didn't think so. What you are doing now, and what you have always done here is resort to some incoherent, incomprehensible form of childish mockery that everyone has had a field day with; showing how utterly foolish and incosequential it all is. - 18:50:23 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: It is clear who and what manner of humans C.Sagan had in mind with the book title that includes the words "Demon Haunted World". RTL is a fellow born well after his right time. RTL needs some body to ask him, "What causes lightening?" Do any dare hold that anyone can be as stupid as RTL; do any dare hold that religious belief is really built for such stupidity? - 19:15:13 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: What do you think of havin'fun w/RTL? Lets prepare a psychological picture o'this fellow. Lets say I begin by saying he's o'average height probably 'roun 5'9"ish, any on his weight? - 19:20:13 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:----Peter-----What I post in this crazy ward from henceforth is directed to people more sensible than thou. You and others appear to me to be foreordained to eternal damnation. It appears in every post you are frothing at the mouth. You are mad man! I have never read sillier posts than yours and others. However, I do not hate thee, but love thee sincerely. That is why I have spent as much time in this ward as I have. But I have doubts that there is any hope for thee, PapaSam and others. I am glad that there are others who visit this ward who make no comment at all. - 19:21:40 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T LEENING TOWARDS INSANITY...why have you suddenly reverted to speaking a bit of the old english? Now, Pam here is a druid, who believes in magic, and suddenly you have just come off the Mayflower. We all know what happened in Salem just a few hundred years ago, and your venacular had brought that to mind. Now, do you think that Pam should be put to death? - 19:32:13 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM..my post to RTL is merely a hypothetical question, so not to worry, although I will be interested in his response. Now, you seem offended because someone has been posting information about Druidism which is easy to read and understand. Why does that offend you, and why do you think that person is mocking you? - 19:34:37 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:RTL<<>>you think that PETER is mad! bahahahahaha, I guess an educated response is a little difficult for you to grasp. We do know that knowledge is death to your mythology. - 19:47:24 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:RTL<<>>by the way, 'love' has nothing to do with your message or your religion. Your religion is built, and thrives on hate. By the way, I know that every state has hill bilies/hicks/rednecks etc. I was wondering what state your trailer park is located in? - 19:50:44 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--ROBERT T LEE--frothing at the mouth? I may be a tad bewildered at yor approaches, and I may bring to your attention that your faith has fanned the fires of your bigotry--which has become so painfully obvious. Call my posts to you silly if you like--a few were attempts to demonstrate how totally irrational your arguments and accusations have been--so I guess you just aren't intelligent enough to grasp any of the analogies. A mad man? If sound reasoning appears to be the actions of a mad person, I would certainly question the sanity of the party who makes those conclusions. - 20:01:43 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

ADAM Can you not petition your "lord" with prayer? ÝÝÝÝÝ:Hey, Bob T. Leap of Faith: ¢¢¢¢¢ Why cannot thou summon this so-called god of yours to come forth and smite me? Is your creature merely a coward, or doth he not heedeth thy summonses? Bring forth this wretched scoundrel of which thy speaketh, or hold thy lunatic's tongue in silence, and plagueth mine denizens no more with thy ludicrous drivel. I will kicketh thy lords ass (and I don't speaketh of his mule)! - 20:21:09 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----To one who call himself Steven-----You stated, "By the way, I know that every state has hill bilies/hicks/rednecks etc. I was wondering what state your trailer park is located in?" Steven, do you make fun of and deride the poor? This is a perfect example of the coldheartedness of heathen atheism. It also derides the less educated. What good is the religion of atheism? It doesn't equip you for any good. It is no good for any community or society. It is the scum of the world. Atheism is worthless. I'd rather live near the poor and the lowly than the so-called worthless mighty. They are of far more worth to the world than an atheist will ever be. - 22:05:20 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: How confused must be RTL to think that ignorance in any group of people serves the world best. But, still he has yet to say what a day is, so one ought be surprised that that same one also might inscribe some as thoughtless as ignorance having meaningfulness to anything. He confuses the heathen ignorance of the myth believing xtian thing as worthy of aclaim, did he ever hear about the dark ages when ignorance and xtianity ruled? - 22:36:51 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Some recall how that RICKY pseudonym hung in for a good while. I wondered about him and his whyfors. Now I wonder'bout this RTL, what does he look like? This curiosity is very like the one of slowing down for a car wreck, to wit what kind of a human wreck would one see at viewing RTL - 22:48:28 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----To one who calls himself "Adam."-----You stated,"Why cannot thou summon this so-called god of yours to come forth and smite me? Is your creature merely a coward, or doth he not heedeth thy summonses? Bring forth this wretched scoundrel of which thy speaketh, or hold thy lunatic's tongue in silence, and plagueth mine denizens no more with thy ludicrous drivel. I will kicketh thy lords ass (and I don't speaketh of his mule)!"-----You words betray the fact that you are indeed ignorant of the ALMIGHTY GOD. The almighty God is not a genie who can be summoned by measly humans to do their will. God is not a slave to humans, but they are to be his slaves. Genies are made for heathens who believe in demos kratia. Democracy means "heathen creature rule." This is how your government is established isn't it? Your genie is satan, and through you heathen and deep pocketed special interest groups you let you desire be known to him through your representatives, and satan is a true "wretched scoundrel." So your genie has given you abortion, homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia and every type of evil freedom as a result of your own summons. The almighty God does not hear such heathen prayers. So by you own words, you condemn thy self.-----Owe, by the way, I would not ask my God to smite thee. What I would ask him to is give you salvation - a thing your atheistic god - satan - can never do for you nor himself. - 23:00:15 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:(S)Pam. You are beginning to sound like a broken record with your "Goodbye"s. You've told us "Goodbye" at least five times. Can't you make it permanent? We'll even let you take RTL with you. - 23:24:14 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. If your god exists, he must have a pretty low opinion of you. In all the time you've been on this site you haven't converted a single atheist. If that weren't bad enough, we have laughed at your "god", derided him/it and made you look like a blithering idiot (which wasn't hard, considering the material we had to work with.) Why don't you give up your present religion and create a new one with yourself as god. At laast you will know god's on your side. - 23:36:35 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Critic:SPAM Get back in your can and throw away the can opener. - 23:39:45 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

The Druids emerged from the ancient Celtic tribes, at a time when the people had to live close to nature to survive. By the light of the storyteller's fire, and with the play of the harp, the Druids dreamed magic for their people. In the deep woods they would gather, bringing together their mysticism and philosophy, their insight and learning. Their spirit emerged from the the tides of the sea, the light of the sun, the wind in the Oak, the cry of the deer. In this way, they created an institution that inspired, frightened, and uplifted their world. - 23:43:57 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Joette... I dream of Genie..:-->ADAM...according to RTL, you are a homosexual who has abortions, digs dogs and kids, and you have the audacity to enjoy some semblance of freedom. Gee, and I thought your only transgression was cheering for the Mets. - 23:47:41 on 15 Jul 98 GMT

Adam I'D RATHER BE HEA-THAN LEE, HEE, HEE ¶¶¶¶¶¶ :Jo-still-owe-ette ººººº Everything Robert TeaLeaves said about me is true, and yet I STILL can kick his imaginary god's ass. So what does that say about his stupid, scoundrel of a shepherd and his mindless flock? I say to thee, Lee, your god can't do nothin' to me, except flee! Hey, let's start an atheist cheering section: Your god SUX, your god SUX, your god SUX!!! The Blue Jays could whoop yo' god's skanky ass, yo' cracka mutha fucka! - 0:09:11 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Adam I'D RATHER BE HEA-THAN LEE, HEE, HEE ¶¶¶¶¶¶ :Jo-still-owe-ette ººººº Everything Robert TeaLeaves said about me is true, and yet I STILL can kick his imaginary god's ass. So what does that say about his stupid, scoundrel of a shepherd and his mindless flock? I say to thee, Lee, your god can't do nothin' to me, except flee! Hey, let's start an atheist cheering section: Your god SUX, your god SUX, your god SUX!!! The Blue Jays could whoop yo' god's skanky ass, yo' cracka mutha fucka! - 0:09:23 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Does Peter, PapaSam, Joette, Steven. Carl and etc approve of what Adam just said to Mr Lee? - 0:34:13 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Adam ANONYMOUS ASSWIPE °°°°:First of all, it's DO they approve, not DOES. Second of all, I don't need anyone's approval to express my opinion here, nor do any of my fellow page denizens need mine. Third, I would guess that most of said denizens think that most of my posts are mostly entertaining. Fourth, THERE IS NO FOURTH. Fifth, anonymous posters are sniveling, scoundrel scumbags who SUCK. Sixth, I apologize; I imagine that most page denizens would take issue with the notion that the Blue Jays could whoop ANYONE, even imaginary supreme beings who demand that you refrain from using their names in vain FIRST & FOREMOST above, say, murder. Rule Seven: No poofdahs! Mind if we call ya' Bruce to avoid confusion? P.S. Hey, Jo, a new Parque in the states tonight. Hope its not one of them hippy freak reruns. - 0:51:51 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ANONYMOUSE...Adam is the most intelligent being on this green earth, so I does approve of what he says, except the part about the Blue Jays, who in fact, are a collective type godthing. - 1:12:19 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--Even if there was a God--he sure has done a shitty job--and continues to do shitty job. He created someone like RTL for starters.... - 2:56:42 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

God:ROBERT T LEE. YOU'RE FIRED!!!! You are no longer un my team. Your feeble efforts on my behalf are enough to make me an atheist. - 3:49:50 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Joette..Yes, to mock and offend is life banality but I have outlined the cat's magickal attempts (David , Keith , slopehead, Critic- the list is in the rehash of MANY months)in the numerous and foiled it in logical repeat. Of importance is the chaos censor of this cat now, which is not even the crux of its trying accomplishment. For the cat remains as seen in your struggles with the anony-cat-mouse. By the way it likes to banish with laughter, so be weary. Joette and Papasam hopefully you will question this cat or person's intentions to the web community. For this is the reason why I came back in repetition replica. Good-bye respectfully as my magickal significance R(r)emains in S(s)pammed eQUILIBRIUM. Or has Thoreau stated,"If a man or woman doesn't keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he or she hears a different drummer"!!! I in wILLING take my walk in the woods***in triad*** - 7:09:22 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

All atheists are fools (Psalms 10:4;14:1;53:1:------Sign: Karl Marx, Rene Descartes, Nicolo Machiavelli, David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Charles Darwin Sigmund Freud, Friedrich Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, Thomas Huxley, John Stuard Mill, A.J. Ayer - 7:58:44 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

--RTL--Do you know every atheist? - 12:20:36 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:PAM<<>>wow, I understood what you posted! I offer a toast, to PAM, for making a post that was readable. *Steven takes big gulp of coffee* - 12:43:29 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:RTL Is there ever going to be any content in your posts other than "atheists are poopy; God won't be amused?" I mean, one can only fully enjoy this piercing insight so many times. - 13:27:06 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:`````To anonymous`````You asked do I know every atheist? The answer is an emphatic YES! - 14:48:52 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..if you have understood what Pam is saying, can you explain it to me? (the readable posts about Druidism are not from her/him). - 14:49:53 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Poor RTL, is he too dumb to know that he is dumb? If the ans.to the question is yea- correct and true, then it is very unreasonable, perhaps even mean, of us to continue poking him. RTL seems to just squeal at the merest gaze and grunts and snorts with every jab. Why? He is uncomfortable at just the idea of an outside- see his anti democracy post, any kind of outside disturbs him. RTL is at best cannon fodder for the likes of any xtian fundamentalist leader. To RTL the biggest thought his mind can entertain is god, this word is of and but another word for nothing. If posts by RTL are true and correct representations of his mental processes, then he neither understands nor comprehends its nothing. - 15:24:05 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. The Druids were primitive people who tried to live in harmony with their surroundings. They imbued the trees of the forest with spirits. It seems they still have a few followers today, as shown by Pam. It deserves as much respect as the mainstream religions of today - None. However, contrary to today's modern religions, which are all patriarchal and degrading to women, Druid priestesses were held in high esteem. - 17:30:26 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Adam SP UPDATE for CANADIENS åååå :Jo: Bad luck. SP this weekend will be a rerun of Ike's Bris // Mackey gets high. Still worth another watch, tho', mmm-kay? - 18:18:03 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:ALL<<>>found a great web site on Druids. Fairly cool stuff. PAPA<<>>all religions can be respected as long as they are not repressive or oppressive. Christianity and Islam should be abolished because they preach hatred and division. However, not all religions are detrimental, and do not require ignorance. Buddhism, Wicca, Druidism, Hinduism, Native American beliefs, etc. do not engage in any of this sort of activity. These religions do not preach that knowledge is evil. For some they are a way to focus the human mind. For some they are an escape from the stress of the world. Yes, they do put stock in dieties etc. which we know are simply made up. However, these religions are very interesting and worthy of study. I don't care if PAM is a druid, as long as she does not attempt to push her beliefs on me. Forcing one's beliefs has never been the objective of these religions. Where a main tenet of the christian and islamic faiths are to destroy all other religions and FORCE others to believe and live by their creed of judgement and hate. Also, describing druids simply "they imbued the trees of the forest with spirits" would be like saying "christians are baptized with water". The druidic Pantheon was HUGE. The tree is only one small part of the nature that the druids respected. The put much more stock in FIRE, for that is where the gained there energy. Enough said, I am going to leave the URL, go check it out. - 19:00:11 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:damn lets try that again - 19:01:16 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:where they gained their energy, arrrrgggg, spell damnit - 19:03:00 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:STEVEN. As an atheist, I have no respect for religion because it is based on the concept of a 'god'or'gods'. While I agree with you on the differences and realize that some are harmless I still feel that they deserve as little respect as the belief in fairies and elves. - 21:30:06 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..I posted that URL sometime ago. You may note that some of the text is familiar, in that it has shown up in dribs and drabs on this very page ;) - 22:03:17 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: Perhaps a qualification of "respect" was in order, as some people are worthy o'respect. But P'SAM may have a point as 'religion is based on a god{s} human relationship'. This is fairy tale stuff. But again, back to your point, had you stuck a qualifying preface to your statement some people would have cleared, but not RTL. - 22:53:29 on 16 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..there is no escape, we're terminal beings:Papasam and Carl have points. If one believes in god or gods or goddesses or fairies or elves etc. etc. etc., one is not coming to terms with reality and facing the trials of life with maturity. - 3:47:22 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Kirk:The bible says that all atheists are fools because of the design argument. Well if God is said to exist because the stars in the sky, nature, etc. declare his glory...well then we need to take a much closer look at the design argument in favor of God. How about instead of stars, tree's and bird's chirping, we look at hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, threat of asteroid impact to wipe out civilization...Let's also look on the much smaller microscopic scale: cancer, deadly viruses, many new diseases discovered every week...Also how about his recklessness in design such as babies born deformed/retarted or with terminal diseases....The creation of the human brain with the desire to invent and improve upon the state of human existence only to end up destroying the earth more by polluting/depleting resources or mechanical failures that coldly wipe out millions of lives...How can a fair and just God justify an innocent child being randomly shot at school or by a random drive-by killer. How about innocent babies born with AIDS or addicted to CRACK. How about the babies thrown in trash cans..what could these children possibly do in their short life to be so crudely killed. How about the sick mass/serial killers...How can a fair God allow one sick bastard to wipe out so many innocent lives as Tim McVay did at the Oklahoma bombing....FINAL CONCLUSION: I believe their is a God that created us, but their is not, AND I REPEAT NOT, one shread of evidence to support god being good or just....If their was a Cosmic Court of Law, the instigator/creator of the universe would have to stand trial for approximately 3 billion counts of reckless/negligent manslaughter and another billion or so counts of pure homicide. Look what GM has to pay if they design a pick-up truck and it tips over and kills someone. It would not stand up in court just to say "The President of GM designed the truck that way for his own special purpose that we can not understand, etc..."Jon Benet and the babies thrown in trash cans had a father, but that did not make their treatment justified...... - 8:07:30 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Robert T. Lee:-----Kirk-----Do you really consider what you stated about God and His providences EDUCATED knowledge of Him. That is not knowledge at all! - 12:06:57 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KIRK..you state that there is not one shred of evidence supporting a benevolent god. Is there one shred of evidence to support your statement that a god exists? - 12:17:29 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL...by whose standard is Kirk's statement not educated. YOURS? By what standard do you measure your knowledge and education? - 12:19:07 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:KIRK-- Interesting stance on a creator. I've often wondered why hardly anyone believes in a malicious creator (or a non-supernatural creator, but that's another matter.) My disbelief in a creator, which is a disbelief not a lack of belief, is based on people's tendency to believe- regardless of their intelligence, education, study, thoughtfullness etc., and a tendency for these beliefs to coincide with what one wishes to believe, the unlikely nature of any of these specific beliefs, and the unlikeliness that there is a way for such things and such details of such things to be known short of personal revelation, which seems to be different for each individual; seems to match current knowledge and expectation; changes constantly with new knowledge; often contradicts demonstable facts; and often changes before one's very eyes. At least a belief in an uncaring or malicious god seems more in line with cold reality, and seems more objective than the typical beliefs. What is your evidence for any creator though, short of lack of other reasonable explanations for our existance? - 12:21:48 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KIRK- I agree! There really is no "design" to the universe. - 12:22:10 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE...this URL is for the Church of the Universe...the reason I am pointing this out to you is that Michael Baldasaro is running for the federal P.C. Party's leadership. If elected, he is going to give everyone free land, and $10,000 on their birthdays. I'd vote for him! (note his new Canadian flag) - 12:23:40 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Checking it out now, there are 14 people running for that leadership! - 15:34:39 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Adam KUDOS were good words ¬¬¬¬:I'LL GRANT GRANT THAT— Dude, that was one excellenty phrased post. - 19:12:58 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOOD BOOK 'EM DAN-OH CANADA ÅÅÅÅ :Hey, Rob't T. Maple Leafs (sic.) ÅÅÅÅ What is your basis for believing that god exists? Assuming that you are relying on the bible (that seems to have been your M.O. thus far), what makes you think that the bible is divinely inspired, rather than simply a collection of legendary tales, mixing history, distorted history and outright mythology? I caution you in advance not to cite the bible as evidence of the bible's gospelliness, for as any jackoff knows, you cannot submit anything as evidence of its own veracity (the error of the founding fathers of the U.S. is quite on point here—the declaration of independence could have been much more properly worded—they said that "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." The king should have retorted that NO TRUTH is self-evident—it must be authenticated by extrinsic evidence, or it is NOT a TRUTH— and that the very notion of a "right" is a creation of human intellect. This would have gone down in history as a great statement of reason, and would have diminished the Declaration's historical impact. Of course, being the head of the Anglican church makes that a wee taddy prickly. Back to RTL. I have little doubt that you will address the substance of this post. BTO, I can kick your girly-man god's ass, anytime, anywhere. - 19:28:07 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOD VISITS BROOKLYN ¥¥¥¥:God: "I am the Lord thy God." Cabbie: "Fock you! Yer blockin' da fockin' street!" - 20:55:29 on 17 Jul 98 GMT

Matt:Hi-- I'm clearly new to the discussion as far as it goes. I wondered whether anyone had their shoots sprung from a substantially religious background and had explored their past as a purgative or cathartic exercise . . . I consider myself an agnostic rather than atheist, though in all respects I treat the difference(s) as trivial. I was curious about people's up-bringings. I was raised catholic and had something of a crisis as I was ready to enter into the monastic life. Reconciliation with the question, "why?" Met my love and partner of 11 years within four months of my decision to go to a "secular" university in the midwest (instead of a private and well-known catholic school in the east) wherefrom I received both under-g and graduate degrees in Biology. I realized, though I was well indoctrinated with and genuinely desirous of the benefits of faith, I just couldn't believe. The whole misguided path seemed so explicable in anthropological terms (god as an answer to the bad and good circumstances of life-- original sin, blame and acquiescence to a higher power-- claiming and pawning off control, alternatively), it was too easy. The answers provided by religion are consistent only where the terms are defined within its perimeters-- namely within the particular religious world view. I encourage anyone who hasn't read Antony Flew's parable (included in some of the better introductory Philosophy texts-- reference p691 of Tillman,Berofsky & O'Connor 2nd Ed. Introductory Philosophy.) Therein is as good an explication of the logical problems with theism as one would hope to need. The problem is one of qualification. Indeed from an anthropological point of view, it seems that theists are primarily concerned with explaining away all the things they dislike about nature; e.g., death and natural disaster. That is, the former is not really what it seems, the death experienced by the young Quinn boys (is it fair to say they experienced their deaths?) This marching season in Ireland) is only the interim to their obvious eternal reward-- and disasters such as the terrible storms and floods in North Dakota and India last year— the fires this year in Florida, are all part of a "larger plan." Theism is a sick game in every sense and should be discarded with every ounce of zeal before it is too late. In whose name have humans waged war upon humans and enslaved humans and torn human limbs from human limbs to please his master? In whose name has man measured his degree of success in conquering lands near and far? And in whose name has mankind exercised control over the "beasts" and the trees and plants only to rid the earth of its vitality? Humans are a species like any other. Our success on this planet cannot realistically be measured until we know what place we hold in the greater whole. Organisms reproduce overabundantly and fail if they don't adapt. This is the only hypothesis we really can test. We can end in a squalid chaos of starvation and desolation where we started with abundance and "paradise" (think of a meadow with gorgeous cone-flowers-echinacea, marigolds, the smell of roses, lilacs, of basil and coriander), or we can trudge back to the truth. Wipe away the soot and other filth— realize that WE ARE ALL WE HAVE. It truly can be an awesome relief (fellow americans— look upon your televangelists and even your legitimate clergy-- test their acquaintance with the facts) or a grat testimony to strange, wonderful, and inspiring hope: Look at, Einstein, Richard Feynman, Noam Chomsky's linguistics (his politics is very enticing but more complaint than normative), Rawls and Ronald Dworkin, Richard Powers' novels, Bertrand Russell's sober reflection on the foundations of mathematics (you'll find a beauty never imagined by the Christians here-- see also Galois, Frege, Whitehead). - 2:55:17 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:Try hard, if you will, to perceive the worth of atheism and if you make a proper assessment of its worth to any portion of mankind, it will be revealed to you that atheism is a demonic ideology or religion that is utterly worthless, to say the least. It darkens the minds of its subjects and bring curses upon every facet of human life.----- The two basic responsibilities every person of mankind has are to love God more than all else and to love mankind. Atheism accomplishes neither one of these responsibilities. It blasphemes against God and brings harm and death upon mankind.----- Atheists are not fit to be parents; they are not fit to be employed in any portion of any society; they are not fit to be any kind of leaders in any society, nor are they fit to serve in any area of public trust. Atheism makes every person who embraces it unfit for any good work.----- Atheist are not even fit to live. They have forfeited the right to life by virtue of being unfit for any good thing.----- The decline or absence of morals in any society can be traced to atheism or the like. All the problems in every facet of society the world over can be traced to atheism, or denial of God and disobedience to him. The rapid increase in crime the world over can be traced to the same. Atheism has nothing good to offer any society.----- Atheism is so heinous and does so much harm that there is desperate need for legislation against it. It is not an ideology, philosophy or demonic religion which should be allowed to exist and flourish in any society. Every atheist should be regarded as high criminals by all governments who have no right to live on the earth.----- Signed by: Karl Marx, Rene Descartes, Nicolo Machiavelli, David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Ludwig Feuerbach, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Friedrich Nietzsche, Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, Thomas Huxley, John Stuard Mill, A.J. Ayer. - 6:04:42 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

Kirk:Greeting's, I return to offer feedback to those who kindly responded to my thoughts: ROBERT T. LEE - My education and knowledge is based on experiencing, observing, and simply reporting on life using the scientific method of analysis, i do not rely on biblical legends, old supersitious people with beards who have bad dreams 2000 years ago, or hand-me down christian somewhat knowledge of distorted/exagerated facts (The bible clearly states that "the universe is 6000 years old, and women were made for the pleasure of man, also it says something about an old man gathering two of every kind of animal in the world and placing them on an ark - can you look me in the eye with a straight face and tell me you believe this).....GRANT and JOETTE: I accept the Indian belief that the physical universe and the god that created it is evil. Once again, i just gather FACTS and report my findings. God exists because I just cannot see how life can evolve from a 'Timeless/Spaceless" nothingness to a uniform homogenous little chunk of matter then explode and these previously uniform homogenous specs somehow by themselves form complex atoms/molecules/elements then physical laws, then thinking beings with emotions/intellegence to ponder and ask the question......MARLENE: You are almost right, their is a design to the universe, but if you closely examine it and evaluate it (like a sloppy term paper, poor movie, terrible employee, rotten spouse, or Jon Benet Ramsey's corpse) you find the universe was designed by a sick perverted 10 year-old with a chemistry set who had a Hitler/McVay mentallity....THE END......If anyone would like to respond, I'd love hearing from you, I enjoy chatting with intellectuals e-mail me at "starbright101@hotmail.com" I'll be away on assignment for a few days...talk to you all when I get back or e-mail me. HAVE A HAPPY DAY - 8:28:02 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

GERMANS ORDER CHILD PORN CRACKDOWN PERFORMED BY ATHEISTS:*****Germany has ordered a nationwide drive to fight child pornography which atheists are placing on the internet. The Germans realized that there is an international porn ring formed by atheists that had links to the nation.*****A probe is still unfolding in the Netherlands into a atheistic ring thought to have sexually abused children as young as 12 months and the atheist placed the images on the Internet. Some mebers of the ring are said to have been from Berlin. - 18:32:45 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:Will we atheists stop at nothing? Today the internet, tomorrow the world! LOL! Now, if you'll excuse me, I am off to kick some winos on skid row in the head. - 18:43:08 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

Adam BUT SERIOUSLY:Robert T. Leech: You are one serious jackoff mutha fucka. That's all you got? Afraid to pursue substance? That's because you know damned well that your god is scared of me, and you are SO ashamed to be a follower of a coward, pussy god. Your beliefs are indicative of a weakness of intellect and a fear of reality. I'll bet that I can get better chicks than your god. I don't think that your god even LIKES chicks, as the inclinations of his clergy would seem to bear out. Your god has the most awful body odor, and zits on his back. Your god—and I'd venture you as well—has an incredibly small penis. I scored much higher on my SATs than did god, who only got into a good college by performing degrading sexual favors on the admissions board. Your god's clothes are out of season. Your god can't drive a manual transmission. Your god sure lookks like his HIV has advanced to full-blown AIDS. Your god favors the metric system. Your god is a fucking BORE at parties, and is invariably the last one to get a joke. Your god wears panties and heels. Your god pronounces the word "nuclear" as "nuke-yu-lar." Your god picks his nose and then eats the boogers. Your god gets picked last in gym. Your god is prone to nosebleeds. Your god masturbates to male exercise videos. Your god liked "Fried Green Tomatoes." Your god has a disturbingly large back-issue collection of Boys' Life. Everyone calls your god a weenie when he's not around. Your god is kinda like the scum that sticks between the sole ridges in my construction boots after I step on gum on a hot day and then walk across a littered vacant lot, only worse. You are an inferior shithead. I am embarrassed that you and I appear to have the same number of chromosomes if I give you the benefit of the doubt. How come your scum god can't DO anything about me? Is he nonexistant, or just a fucking slime weasel bastard chicken-shit? I think you know the answer to that, despite being a fucking moron. MATT: I parsed through your mind-numbingly long post, which I though was a melange of good and bad material. I will say this, though: please cease and desist from putting atheists and agnostics in the same bin. Agnosticism is nothing more than the position that the existence or lack thereof of a deity cannot be proven. BIG DEAL! I read that as: Agnostics are cowardly atheists. Your post makes clear that you challange the intellectual (sic) underpinnings of theism; I say, "Go for it." There is no god, and you KNOW it. And if, by chance, there is, he is as described above for the neanderthal known as Mr. R.T. Lee-High (must be high on somethin'). - 22:51:36 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

Adam AUTOKUDOS **** :GODDAMN! I'm a fucking funny mutha' fucka' sometimes! I am narcissistic about my last post. IS THAT SO WRAWNG? - 22:55:16 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

Friedrich Nietzsche:Yes, its wrong if you fuck your mother>>>>-Adam. - 23:56:32 on 18 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:KIRK. So where did the god come from who created this universe? If it's hard to visualize the universe coming from a timeless/spaceless nothing into what exists today, it is much harder to visualize a being or thing able to create the universe from the timeless spaceless nothing. I am an atheist. I do not believe in any supernatural bings, be they gods, devils, fairies, ghosts, angels or whatever. Personally, I look upon the universe as a paradox. From a purely logical point of view, it should not exist, but it does. Many years ago, as a child in school, I was told in one of my first science classes that matter can neither be created or destroyed. So if that still holds true, where did all the mattter in the universe come from? If the "Big Bang" theory should be valid, where did the first primordial bit of matter come from? I don't have the vaguest notion, but that is no reason to invent a deity to serve as a convenient pretext to cover up one's ignorance. Perhaps some fellow atheist can resolve the issue for me. I doubt it. - 6:56:37 on 19 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KIRK- I said, there really is no "design" to the universe, at least no intelligent design. Although the earth can be a harsh places, floods, drought etc., life has evolved successfully and flourishes. There is no need or reason to assmume a "god" created anything just because we haven't got all the answers right now. - 13:22:33 on 19 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:HI MATT- I don't treat the differences between agnostic and atheist as trivial. There is a huge difference. An atheist does not accept god whereas an agnostic is "not sure" that there is a god. I agree that the "beauty" xtianity offers palls in the face of the reality of the natural world (the only world IMO, being atheist). My parents were "believers" in god. My mom went to church and dragged me along and my dad never went but still had a belief. So I suppose you could say I was raised with religion but I never bought it. To me god was and is equivalent to the tooth fairy, santa claus and the easter bunny. - 13:38:52 on 19 Jul 98 GMT

GERMAN PORN RING TURNS OUT TO BE OBSCURE TEN COMMANDMENT CULT:German officials have ordered crack down on bizarre "Ten Commandment" death cult who's potential members must pass a stringent low IQ and lack of general knowledge and understanding test, and who's "end justifies the means" mentality is widely cited as an example of human stupidity. Spokesman Robert Lee threatened, "You'll burn in hell for questioning Me and God!" - 17:14:19 on 19 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:I JUST KNEW IT! Only someone as simple as that TCDC would be stupid enough! - 5:07:23 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

RON...: Greetings mere mortals. - 17:38:49 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->RON...we mere mortals at least could give you some tips on posting an URL that works. You might want to check with your superior beings first before taking our word for it. - 20:47:37 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Kirk:Hi everyone I'm back again...Today's lesson is on the leaders of Christianity....If Christianity, which supposedly represents "God's Love", is such a magical cure-all for the world's ill's...then you would think that the so-called humans called by God to be a leader (priest, bishop, cardinal, tele-evangelist, etc) would be so full of this supernatural gift, especially after all the prayers and sermons preached, funerals and wedding's performed, and other various forms of holy this and that, and their lives should represent the very best that "Chrisianity has to offer the world"...but instead, everytime I look in the local paper I read stories about catholic priests who molest little church altar boys and even little sunday school girls. I read countless reports of children going on religous retreats with sunday school leaders, only to be sexually taken advantage of...Even bishops and cardinals are guilty of such sexual offenses against children that the Catholic Diocese had to pay millions of dollars in out of court settlements. I could continue with many more examples of the sexual exploitation of children by Christian Leaders, but I'll get to the next point....How about all incidents about the clergy stealing donated money and fraud. Can you imagine a little girls proudly putting 110 pennies in the offeratory plate, only to have someone like JIMMY SWAGGERT, or JIM BAKKER use it to off-set the cost of paying for prostitutes, or his summer home in the Bahama's. (And these tele-evangelists supposedly have the power of television to go along with their power of christianity). I could go on endlessly talking about all the contribution fraud schemes that take place and the stealing of offeratory donations by the clergy, but it's time to move on again....NEXT LESSON...To reply to PAPASAM (e.g. More difficult to beieve that God can come from a timeless/spaceless nothingness, etc)...Just as my brain, cannot comprehend it's designer, or a watch cannot comprehend it's crafter...God exists in a dimension that is above us...He lives outside the natural time/space continumn and thus he is outside our dimensional/plane of understanding and will always be...This is far easier for me to believe, than that all of creation arising from nothingness by pure chance. Their is just too much evidence to support a very cruel design argument favoring a evil God. I can get into an extremely advanced scientific discussion on God being revealed to scientific researchers in the laboratory, dealing with quantum physics/mechanics, but it is lengthy and beyond the scope of this chat site and I'm too long with this message already. THE END - 21:28:02 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Adam REPENTANT COLONY? *** :Geez, maybe I was a bit rough on god this weekend. Maybe I could cut back on the vitriol & animus. Maybe god isn't quite as awful as I make him out to be. Maybe I should look seriously into changing my ways. Naaaaah. - 21:33:04 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KIRK...I am offended by your post, in that you feel you are here to "teach" us something. Nothing in your post is new or fresh, so please come down from the high horse. And trust me, we have had our share of quantum physics discussions as well, so if you really believe there is SCIENTIFIC PROOF FOR THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD, then please, bring it on. We aren't stupid you know. - 22:12:45 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->KIRK...is your alterego named Tony by any chance? - 22:14:03 on 20 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- "Beyond the scope of this chat site"???? High horse?! How about the land of OZ! KIRK- You'll never get anywhere here with that attitude! Evidence of this god is what we need and there is absolutely no evidence in qm. - 3:33:38 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM- Naaaaaaaaaaaaa! - 3:35:44 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

PETER--------:--You haven't been on this page to long, have you ?................ ( PS I am really, really REALLY biting my tongue at this point ) - 3:53:16 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--Sorry, KIRK--My last post is directed at you - 3:55:19 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:KIRK-- The fact one can't see how it could be otherwise is not evidence of anything. You're driving along on an isolated mountain road when something off in the brush catches your eye. You stop to investigate and discover that it's an old suitcase. Naturally you wonder what's inside but you can't get it open. Being the methodical type, you get out a pad and pencil and list the things you think the case might contain. Is the list evidence of what is inside the case? It may reveal something about you but it reveals nothing about the contents of the case. - 4:24:42 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

RON...hmmm...work yesterday...:Well, even we Gods have problems.. - 12:23:15 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: There is that word again, of KIRK to P'SAM,"This is far easier for me to believe..etc" I still wonder what that word means, in the form of the sentence- a sentence being ones'thought, KIRK also leaves open-ended the what of "belief"- his, might be attributed or connected to. If one of you refers to a grove of trees where you are I can believe your accounts due the same such that I could refer to, here. If one of you refers to the constellation ursus major on a cloudless night or mist shrouded morn I can comprehend either, or I could understand a similar account of the southern cross, which I've never seen. But, what is what does the"thought", of believing in a godthing, really pertain to? The only resolution I can make out is exemplified by a unicorn, we know a horse we know birds fly, so why not a winged horse, that flys? - 14:58:31 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

RON...interesting news...: Strange News from Around the World - 17:06:30 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:RON: These sites are dizzifying places to go. - 19:54:13 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: What did the N.Guineaites do or not do to get the treatment or mistreatment o'the godthing or jc or the h'spirit or whichever? I wonder this after reading how the jews qualify themselves gettin'sub's for nuclear "deterence" purposes. I thot i read how that group referred to their god as being wrathful and so on. Are these two events really of or for that kinda god, or just those unthinking people? Afterall, when all else, e.g., thinking, fails there is always the godthing for a handy excuse. - 21:14:18 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:KIRK. Samuel Johnson said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." PapaSam says "God is the last refuge of the unthinking." As you stated, "it is easier to believe." Why bother to thimk. - 22:55:32 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Kyle::"On their way they find a gas station. The guy, Kirk, goes in to ask for gas until a man comes out with a leather face and hits him in the head with a sledgehammer" - 23:21:46 on 21 Jul 98 GMT

Bates: Great comments, guys. It's good to see so much neurotransmitting activity going on between brains. That's good. It means your thinkin'. It's also good to see that I'm not the only one with such viewpoints on the whole "godthing". Nice quotes, by the way. All of you. Athiests everywhere gotta stick together, you know. "Where is god? LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!!" --Unknown - 6:49:45 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Kirk:Wow, did not mean to sound high horse when i said 'beyond the scope...." I meant that you all would not like to hear long drawn out scientific discussion's in a casual chat site. Also don't mean to sound like I'm teaching, it may not be new or fresh, but I had to offer a rebutal to defend you all against ROBERT T. LEE's attack of a similar nature...Recently (this IS new and fresh - don't mean to sound like I'm trying to teach) scientists have discovered an opening in the natural space/time continumn at the quantum level (as per the "uncertainty principal") which allows a "God" to act in the world...In the subatomic realm of quantum physics, the behavior of particles is unpredictable...A radioactive element might have a half-life of one hour, but what if you have only a single atom? Then, in an hour, it has a 50-50 chance of decaying. And what if the experiment is arranged so that if the atom does decay, it releases poison gas? If you have a cat in the lab, will the cat be alive or dead after the hour is up? Physicists have discovered that there is no way to determine, even in principal, what the atom will do. Theologian-scientists see that decision point (will atom decay or not) as one where God can act without violating the laws of physics. An even newer science, chaos theory, describes phenomena like the weather and some chemical reactions whose exact outcomes cannot be predicted. Hence, God selects which possibility becomes reality. This divine action would not violate physical laws either. The very science that killed God is now recently restoring faith. If the constants of nature - strength of gravity, charge of an electron, mass of a proton, etc - were the tiniest bit different, then atoms would not hold together and life would never have made an appearance. And with that I leave for tonight..... - 7:54:58 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Spock:Eventhough, I too believe in a creator, I find it most illogical that this entity is worshipped and glorified for what it has designed... - 8:03:49 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Kirk:Beam us up Scotty.... - 8:47:15 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Scotty:Aye Aye Sir...... - 8:48:19 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Bones:-->KIRK...theologian-scientiest is an oxymoron. - 10:21:59 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Mike:Kirk: you say the constants of nature have been predetermined to allow matter to exist and hence foster the development of intelligent life. What if there are many universes, with many different values for these constants? When we ask the question "Why are things the way they are?" we should first consider the question "If things were not the way they are, would we be in a position to ask the question?" It's like asking why there is liquid water on Earth; the answer being that if there wasn't, we would not be in a position to ask the question, we would have evolved somewhere where the conditions were suitable. - 11:00:05 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:-We've heard it all before, Bill - 12:34:23 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--KIRK--Interesting data, but it only results in creating more gaps where one can still posit a god--which remains conveniently undefined and interchangeable with the concept 'unknown influence'. All you are doing basically, is eliminating areas where it may be possibly shown that God does not and cannot exist. It has been my experience that those who attempt to provea supernatural entity are completely unaware of the task that awaits them in a forum of rational discussion--and you seem to be no exception. Your first task is to give a clear and intelligible definition of what God is. Also, I must stress this point: This isn't an optional chore to be undertaken at your convenience. It is a necessary prerequisite for intelligibility. I assume that you do not believe in the concept of God as nonsense, so therefore you, and you alone , assume the responsibilty of explaining the content of your belief. Failing to do this, to state that "God exists"--or to make any reference to "God" at all, is to communicate nothing at all; it is if nothing is being said. - 12:50:02 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:KIRK: It seems to me that you mean but to appeal to the unknown as evidence for a godthing. I used to think the ditty of a man in pursuit of the horizon meaningful for the learner-type. Your post makes it seem like you and your kind, religious believers, mean that the horizon is your godthing. That would not mean there is a godthing, only that you can "communicate nothing at all". - 16:13:47 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MIKE- Very good comment! - 16:41:18 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:KIRK- Peter has said it better than I could, so "where'e the beef?". - 16:43:27 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: To KIRK I made reference to the following, "I beheld a running man, I accosted him inquiring of his action, he breathlessly said I am after that- tiredly pointing at the horizon, I said to him while gently holding up his departure, but one can never..., pulling free and running off he said over his shoulder, you lie! and off he went." That is roughly what I recall of that ditty. - 17:06:56 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:KIRK. Since you can't prove of your 'god's existence in our everyday physical world, you seek to prove it at the Quantum level. "An opening in the space/time continuum at the quantum level - - - which allows a "god" to act in the world". You use the term "theologian- scientists" but there is no such thing. It is typical of theologians to try to hang on to the coattails of scientists. You never see a scientist looking to a theologian for support. "The very science that killed god is now recently restoring faith." YOU WISH! Sorry, Kirk. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still boloney, on the macro level or the micro level. - 17:44:37 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:P'SAM: Have you read the catholic encyclopaedias version of "belief" I've perused it at least and those ol'boys sure can twist and contort things. The more I review of that resource does it become more and more apparent that the very nature of religion is just one big bamboozling ongoing affair of some humans against all other humans. That "against" they call sin, but it ain't nuthin else but a leverage point. - 18:21:49 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

RON..."He's dead, Jim"...--->Bates...: Our combined activity represents "God". Our chaotic society, piled layer on layer, reflects, shapes, and determines our future. WE create "God" in everything we do, or don't do. Do I sound like "Yoda"? - 19:25:11 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

jennifer:God is a tool made by man to get through a world where death would be so much easier than life. If god is what the weak people in the world need to see them through the pain and hardships of living, let them believe but I do not need a myth to make me try to live a better life. - 19:27:52 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Friedrich Nietzsche:GREETINGS CLASS----- >>>>>Your teacher has asked me to come to speak with you. So today, I'd like to expose an heathen principle I label as "equality of the genders." As you know, atheists and other non believers claim that women are equal to men. However, when we turn to the Bible, we find that the Creator of all mankind says that females are the weaker gender. Heathen reasoning erroneously concludes (as it does in everything else) that that is an injustice to women. However it is not an injustice, but great wisdom.>>>>To illustrate what I mean, let us all walk out into our aviary. Now you will notice that of every species of birds we have here, the plumage of the male bird is more coloful and prettier than the female birds. Look at the plummage of the male peafowl as opposed to the female. Notice the plummmage of that male pheasant as opposed to his female mate. In wisdom, God made the female's plummage dull and drab as opposed to creating the male's plummaged very colorful and much more attractive.>>>>>Think for a momemet why God created birds this way, and when you realize why, you will see that there is indeed wisdom in Him having created birds this way.>>>>>One reason why the female's plummage is dull is because she must sit on her eggs. While she incubates them, she must be camouflaged from preditors so she can successfully incubate her eggs. If she was the same color as her mate, she would be visible to every preditor that passes her way. In time, this would wipe out the species. So there is indeed great wisdom in God having created female birds unequal to males.>>>>>Now I would like for you to immagine for a moment that every one of the female birds in this aviary are women and every one of the males are men. Then imagine that the women are trying to be equal to the men. You will should realize that since there is great wisdom in women being the weaker gender, they should take the place that God has given them. By women trying to be equal to men, they are doing great harm to themselve and society.>>>>>Observe here another example of the worthlessness of atheism, and how deceptive it is to all who embraces it, and how harmful it is to marriage and society.>>>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 20:46:43 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->JENNIFER...I read the opening paragraph of your URL (the rest wouldn't load), but don't you think that opening statement is a bit of a generalization? Why do people assume that because one has "power" that they will automatically destroy society. Are there no ethical people in a position of power? Do not democracies exist? - 20:59:07 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE...how many times do you have to be called a FUCKING ASSHOLE before you get a clue? So, your point about the birds is.....? That the male will stand out, so it is can be seen easily by predators, therefore rendering it expendable?????? You stupid, stupid fuckwit. Here's another example...a little girl asked her mother why her brother had a penis and she didn't. The mother said "Listen sweetheart, your brother only has one penis but with what you have, you can get as many as what your brother has as you want." I bet your wife gets beat regularly, and I hope your son is a homosexual (have you asked him?) - 21:06:52 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:FN: Very little as you describe it appears in the myths of your bible. You inscribe it is wisdom, but your myth filled bible is not a scientifically researched composition. It is only a source of confusion for those as yourself who "assume" that it is meaningful. That "religious assumption" historically is very harmful to all kinds of humans. Atheism by some humans has always resisted that ignorance, considered so desirable by the religious human. You err grossly place your bible next to your numerous other books and don't pray to it anymore. It is just a book written by very ignorant savage cavemen. - 21:36:46 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Stop repressing your feelings and just say what you mean. - 21:49:53 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:--CARL..hahaha! Anyway, RTL (alisa FN) wouldn't know another book if it jumped up and hit him in the face. His posts show how uneducated he is, and I shouldn't even bother making a comment, but sometimes he steps over the proverbial line in the sand. - 21:54:03 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Some very poor religious rep's have come here and have disappointedly done nothin'for their point of view. I find it difficult accepting that anyone can be so, so , so is it blind, is it dumb, is it stupid, so whatever as it concerns them and that godthing. The religious believer goes goofy trying to account for an all. It is impossible but nevertheless, they opt to say that they "believe-in" a godthing and so ought all others. Why? None can say. - 22:46:09 on 22 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:FN/aka/RTL. "When the Himalayan peasant meets the he=bear in his pride, He will shout to scare the monster, who will often turn aside, But the female thus accosted, rends the peasant tooth and nail, For the female of the species is more deadly than the male." Rudyard Kipling. You had better watch your ass, boy, or Joette and /or Marlene will tear you apart both intellectually and physically. Maybe your mama who carried you in her womb was a bible thumping inferior creature of sin and lust, uncclean by your bible standards. Atheist women are of a different and superior type. - 3:05:55 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

jaywilson--bowling in the Catskills and having a lot of fun--:CARL: Simple; it's in their genes--and obviously Mom and Dad shopped the deep discount stores. As your term "religious representatives" is an oxymoron, so they are deoxy-morons. - 3:10:11 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (Frieddie's Dead and so is God):Hey, RTL. Why didn't god make the surroundings more colorful then, so the birds could both be "beautiful" and not become extinct? Talking of the Birds, why did God in his wisdom create fleas? Was it so we could 'itch cocks? - 13:04:36 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>>To day, I would like to present to you the following news report. Its Its another terrible, teribble example of the satanic fruit of atheism and how atheism does harm to children. Consider the following: "A vast child pornography case allegedly involving the son of late science fiction writer and atheist Isaac Asimov will be turned over to federal prosecutors to track down possible international connections, officials said Wednesday. A Sonoma County judge Wednesday dismissed local proceedings against 46-year-old David Asimov after prosecutors said the case was so big it should be restarted with federal authorities in charge. 'This case has interstate and potentially extra-U.S. connections,' said deputy District Attorney Gary Medvigy. 'There is an enormous amount of material to go through.' Medvigy said he expected the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Francisco to file federal charges soon.>>>>>Asimov was arrested in February after technicians working on his computer allegedly turned up computer pictures depicting child pornography. Police who later searched his house in this town 45 miles north of San Francisco said said they found one of the largest collections of child pornography they had ever seen, including 4,000 video tapes and video copying equipment. Asimov, who was charged with felony possession of child pornography with intent to sell, has said he is innocent and is free on supervised release, Medvigy said. Isaac Asimov, who died at age 72 in 1992, was one of the United States' most prolific and most admired writers of science fiction, producing close to 500 books over his lengthy career." (Reuters)>>>>>As you can quite easily guess, Isaac Asimov was an atheist, and so is his son David Asimov.>>>>>So all of you are probably wondering the same things I'm wondering, which is this: How much child pornography and other heathenism do you think can be found on the computers of the various atheists who are reading these words this very moment? - 13:44:04 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (You haven't got one to stand on):cheaTer: ">>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>>To day, I would like to present to you the following news report. Its another terrible, teribble example of the satanic fruit of <having 2 legs> and how <having 2 legs> does harm to children. Consider the following: "A vast child pornography case allegedly involving the son of late science fiction writer and <person with 2 legs> Isaac Asimov will be turned over to federal prosecutors to track down possible international connections, officials said Wednesday. A Sonoma County judge Wednesday dismissed local proceedings against 46-year-old David Asimov after prosecutors said the case was so big it should be restarted with federal authorities in charge. 'This case has interstate and potentially extra-U.S. connections,' said deputy District Attorney Gary Medvigy. 'There is an enormous amount of material to go through.' Medvigy said he expected the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Francisco to file federal charges soon.>>>>>Asimov was arrested in February after technicians working on his computer allegedly turned up computer pictures depicting child pornography. Police who later searched his house in this town 45 miles north of San Francisco said said they found one of the largest collections of child pornography they had ever seen, including 4,000 video tapes and video copying equipment. Asimov, who was charged with felony possession of child pornography with intent to sell, has said he is innocent and is free on supervised release, Medvigy said. Isaac Asimov, who died at age 72 in 1992, was one of the United States' most prolific and most admired writers of science fiction, producing close to 500 books over his lengthy career." (Reuters)>>>>>As you can quite easily guess, Isaac Asimov <had 2 legs>, and so does his son David Asimov.>>>>>So all of you are probably wondering the same things I'm wondering, which is this: How much child pornography and other heathenism do you think can be found on the computers of the various <people with 2 legs> who are reading these words this very moment?" - 14:00:26 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Ok, RTL brings up atheism and courts and unlawfulness. The fluff lets ignore. According to the information/data of his site it appears that guilt by mere association warrants the direst of consequences. Innocent until proven guilty well, that is just a silly thing the US constitution holds, but RTL types know{?} it was never really meant to be that way. It amazes me how quickly the religious godfearers are always so close to kindle another auto de fa, for their point of view. The religious types take to the extreme the idea of "authority" of which they obviously think that the human and their godthings'authority are one and the same. Since there is no godthing, it is just RTL types wanting their way, they just want to control anything and everyone. - 14:35:52 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--TEACHER--So? - 14:54:34 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:RTL: I for one don't see a wrong of any kind in viewing a naked body. There are some 'kinds' of bodys I'd limitedly view but generally pictures just don't do anything for me. If I were a pencil or paint-like artist I'd surely portray bodys I like. I got no bookmarked porno sites. I do warn my offspring about confused folks and this includes you religious folks because you have the same problem of confusion. Porno isn't really the problem, the problem is ignorance{viz.godthings}. Jails and prisons and burning for heresy ain't a solution, the learning process of everything one can learn would start a solution. - 17:16:37 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:"TEACHER". His best customers were probably priests and ministers. Without them he'd probably have gone out of business. If the catholic church used only a small portion of the money it paid out to settle child sexual abuse cases they could have bought him out lock, stock and barrel. Speaking of neews releases, here are a couple of old ones. Bible, date unknown: "Lot has sexual relations with daughters, God does not punish him for incest." Bible, date unknown: "God floods earth, kills off millions, including toddlers, babies suckling at mothers' breasts and fetuses in mothers' wombs. Bible, date unknown: "Jesus, so-called Prince of Peace, tells Luke: 'He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.' " Also tells Luke "But those mine enemies who would not that I reign over them, bring thither qand slay them before me. Lyons, France, 384AD: "Council of Macon debates 'Are Women Human', Vote 32 Yes, 31 No." Spain 1490. "Auto de Fe, popularly known as the inquisition, announced the purification by torture and death of another 500 heretics today." Hamburg, Germany 1500. "Church authorities announced over 500 witches had been burned or drowned this week, establishing a new record." Sorry, I've got to go. More next time. My grandson wants to use the computer. - 17:33:00 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:I have been an Atheist for as long as i can remember it is not because my family were Atheists. It was not that I knew anyone that was an Atheist. I didn't even know what I was until into my adult life. My family was in fact very religious. I thought that I was the only person on the face of the earth that could see how much bullshit is in religion. So, I consider myself a product of the truth combined with a logical mind. I am just glad that I am not alone in this way of thinking. But, even if I was alone, I wouldn't change a thing. - 20:03:33 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Lets us atheist types elevate the theists a bit, since they can't or don't want to help theirselves. The thing that annoys me about them and their theory of the existence of all is when, due to their chosen theory, they disregard those things of it that do not and clearly will not support their theory. Whether or not it matters that various concepts are abstract or real ought to be pointed to as it relates to their theory and to that of the atheist would be the best course for discussion. What is the theory by which an atheist functions? Perhaps this is what so concerns the theist. The ans.for me at least, is the theory of knowledge of which evolution is but one concept, are the various sciences the other concepts of knowledge? Be the knowledge theory as it may, it is the better theory for the existence of all. - 20:15:50 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..you make a good point in that some theists only abide by what fits into their own intrepretation of whatever religion they follow. RTL is an excellent example of this. Whereas he thinks he is a good Christian, he postulates many unchristianlike theories, such as homosexuals should die, anyone who doesn't think like him should die, everyone in the world should die except for himself. He is a bigot, a chauvinist, and his self-pride is astronomical. How does he rationalize this? Whatever happened to the golden rule? - 20:37:34 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Up to now what I see us doing just feeds our exasperation, mine at least, and allows the feeble minded as RTL the quack RICKY and similar such to simply splash about in the shallow end of the intellectual pool as if they were swimming. As an atheist I like the prospects of treating theism as a theory because that means it is just an intellectual exercise. The intellect IMHO is the only thing that makes a human a human. That is my view whenever I counter point theists who extrapolate on what a godthing says and wants, we are but humans not gods to know such god things. I must be a god to "know" what a god wants in the same way that I could know what other humans want. So if the theory of theists who merely want to better understand the ALL is supported by sound concepts let them show it so. But, virgin births sin spirits resurrections, not good. - 21:18:05 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:---RTL---About your theory that women should not be treated as equal to men.....using the birds would be a very useful example if we were animals. I don't know about you but I prefer to think of myself as more intelligent and more responsible than a mere bird. And if you want to compare humans to animals then you must include all animals. What about those animals who eat their brothers. What about those animals that do not have monogamous relationships. And what about those animals who hunt and kill their prey. They do not have a mind to think of these things. They are not conditioned with culture and social values. They do not have compassion for their fellow bird. They go thru their life without ever thinking of greater things. If you still persist to compare men to birds then I must say that your brain works much like that of the birds that you are using in you example. - 21:18:26 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:for your information-----I am 29-yrs-old. I am a woman. I am an engineer. I live in the South, so I know all about religion. Afterall, I live in the Bible belt region. - 21:26:58 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->modhu...welcome to the page. Not to worry, you don't have to live in the South to know all about religion. It's everywhere...most here have done much study before realizing there is no evidence to support the existence of a god. - 21:36:39 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:---Joette---I haven't done offical study on religion, but my life experience has been enough to show me the true way. I am a very unique person in my own mind. I think differently than anyone around me. It is refreshing to know that my thinking is not as unique as I first imagined. Thank you for your welcome. I am glad to be here! - 21:44:03 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MODHU: I guess your south thing places you among the rebels. I have among my phantasys, skydiving ski-jumping and finally, hitch-hiking thru the rebel states. Is it- therein, really like an episode of "In the Heat of the night"? In any case, kick yer shoes off stay a bit and have sum fun with the demon haunted and superstitious. - 22:36:22 on 23 Jul 98 GMT

Marv.:Marv. i would just like to say that not beliving in God is sad not because One may think they are alone, but to have the gall to think that the earth is a random thing. you know what is really sad is that a lot of us christians have made it hard to spread the faith. So people like you just don't get the meaning of God and Jesus. The sad thing is that most people I know who don't belive in God have sad lifes. There is no one to guide you. With God there is always someone no matter how tough Your life may seem at the time. I guess you will know when the time comes who was right. For you there is a ? For Me there is faith, and not just that I know that there is a God. It has been proven to me. - 0:33:44 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

joette:-->MARV..don't keep us in suspense. Please tell us how it was proven to you that God exists? Maybe you have the answer we have all been seeking. Don't keep it to yourself, spread the word, and who knows, maybe we will all fall on bended knees before the end of evening. (btw..it's "lives", not "lifes") - 0:38:18 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

PETER---:--Oh MARV, what a confused young man you are.....how sad. And of course it has been proven to you. By reading the rest of your post, your critical thinking skills show the usual non-existence level of a beloever in the notion of God. - 1:10:05 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:MARV. Since you're so familiar with god, tell me about him. Where did he come from and who were his parents? What does he look like. Who was jesus and who were his parents? What does he look like and do either of them have any siblings? I look forward to your informative answers. Thank you in advance. - 3:49:01 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:Same old thing; conspiracy theories, persecution of Jews, racism, RTL vs. atheists. Making simple sense of a world whose workings are beyond one's grasp. Impotence. - 12:17:18 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Scapegoats -R- Us - 13:36:20 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT...huh? - 14:17:31 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARV: I've probably heard it said more often than in any reading,"When born we come into this world, alone; and at our death we will be placed into a hole in the ground, alone." Are these the events you hold in mind? What were you prior to birth and what is the forever, after your death? Live long and prosper. - 14:26:34 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

PETER:--MARV says:33:44 July 24 --'So people like you just don't get the meaning of God and Jesus'.....No Marv, we DO...you DON'T... - 15:19:04 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: For some time RTL has been here and putting forward his assorted views. And of course a passerby or two as MARV also deposit a line or so and the atheist types recognise in anything the theist types post the same drivel. To the atheist of now, with this PC, we can- as could anyone else, read the things said in foretimes when ignorance lay upon the world in its meaningless form. I just clicked into a URL of court records of magic related cases in the early xtian era. It read as tho'what I posted to MODHU, demons superstitious xtians, were always so and it has not changed one iota. Xtians and magic then and now are similarly one and the same. Demons then and still for xtians, abound everywhere and wishes for the impossible but serve as fillage for many of their words. If you atheists get a chance find a URL of those olden times and see how xtian thinking and words pungently reek of time frozen thoughts. - 16:08:35 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MODHU- Welcome! to an ATHEIST discussion. There are tons of atheist issues that are up for discussion and we do indulge in those when we can. Much of the time though we entertain ourselves with the "believers" that post here, either to "save" us or most of the time, "to elevate their delusions and humiliate themselves". Prime example is our own RTL (Robert T Lee). - 16:27:22 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..BOOM!:RTL- You da bomb that blow up in his own face! Firstly, according to you, your god gave every human "free will". With that in mind (try to use it), it would be David's will, not Isaac's that chose to indulge in child pornography. There is no evidence that David is atheist and even if he is, what has that to do with sex crimes? As Papasam has pointed out, pastors, reverends, deacons and even online believers in the laird, like yourself, indulge in sex crimes. Which brings to the forfront, crimes against women. Something you, yourself have blantantly indulged in. Are so such a little man that you need to lessen the opposite sex to elevate yourself? You wouldn't be here to spew your ridiculous delusions if it weren't for a woman. Were you abused by women perhaps? Only that could explain your apparent hatred. Your masquerade of religion is just that, a masquerade. I suggest you seek help before you hurt someone (if you haven't hurt those around you already). - 16:47:40 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..it's scary, huh?:CARL- Xtian thinking is archaic! I think this is what they think is a "safe haven". If policy were up to them, we'd forever be stuck in a "dark age". The very reason that policy shouldn't be up to them. No matter how "good" the politician, if he/she mentions god, he/she looses my vote. The delusion can not be sepate and apart from the rational when push comes to shove. - 16:57:55 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MARV- Again, Peter has answered better than I could. If you would like us to expand on that, we will. If your here to "save" us or "tell" us about your delusion, save the wear and tear on your keyboard. There is no changing and atheist's mind on the subject of a god. And NO, it's not sad to not believe in a god, in fact it's a good feeling to know that we live in reality. Fear of death is natural, death is natural. We all die and no longer exsist either as we are now or on another plane. I'm not greedy, I have my life, I'll live it, die, then someone else will be born to carry on. I accept that and I'm very comfortable with it, why aren't you? - 17:08:48 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- Ditto Joette, huh? - 17:10:45 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:MARV. Here's a little ditty we used to chant when we were kids, many years ago. "The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, they crawl all over your face and mouth. The worms crawl out, the worms crawl in, and when they get finished the bugs begin." I'm sure this will give you some small comfort as you look forward to your inevitable demise. Isn't it nice to know jesus will be there holding your maggot infested hand? - 17:35:39 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Car;:ANY: If one is up to it check out this site, see what you think afterwards of the religious mentality. - 18:30:49 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..hail Mary, what a farce:CARL- I don't think too much of the religious mentality. I read all the fairytales. I wonder how many people on death row the blessed virgin is saving now? Have you heard of any? - 18:52:38 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..yuck! worms!:PAPASAM- I think I'm going to be cremated, lol! - 18:54:25 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:Where is everyone today, gone to the lake? - 18:55:48 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: V.mary tales! Believe it or not there are some adults somewhere today on the N.American continent who would accept those tales as evidence of something. They are the types RTL wants for his side. - 19:05:09 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I'm not online too much as I'm making raspberry jelly and canning today so I'm sorry I'm late getting back to you. I'm not sure that RTL is a catholic. He kind of reminds me of those born again types that make up their own rules. - 19:57:57 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- In addition to that, I suspect he was likley some other type of fanatic at some point in his life. Heavily into drugs or alcohol or whatever and uses religion as another crutch to get him through the day. - 20:01:06 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: One can refer to RTL by any religious creed, it is the same by any name, it's OF nothing. It is, however, FOR something. RTLs' site stands as stark dark evidence that he and his ilk mean to have their way. Right wrong true false good bad, to them none of these lofty words mean anything. If such ideas and concepts were meaningful to any of them they would not connect or allow their intellectual being to be tainted by such nonsense as xtianity. - 20:11:34 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:--ALL--I came to this site because I want to learn more about myself and get some answers about life. It has never been proven to me that god is real, and I know that it will never be proven. This is not a concern of mine (whether god is real or not). I just want to find the best way to cope with this world and how I can make it better while I am here. Although, I do like showing idiots just how stupid they can be. My problem, I guess, is this: I need wise people at my disposal, so I can ask questions and get help with the answers. I am in a state of confusion. I wish that I had the comfort of being mindless. Then...I could follow religion and wouldn't have to think....All of the questions and answers would be given to me...but that would be the same as being blind and deaf. Anyway, I am not perfect......I am not all knowing...I am just a human like everyone else. Trying to find the meaning of life where there is none. - 20:46:27 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

modhu:--ALL--I came to this site because I want to learn more about myself and get some answers about life. It has never been proven to me that god is real, and I know that it will never be proven. This is not a concern of mine (whether god is real or not). I just want to find the best way to cope with this world and how I can make it better while I am here. Although, I do like showing idiots just how stupid they can be. My problem, I guess, is this: I need wise people at my disposal, so I can ask questions and get help with the answers. I am in a state of confusion. I wish that I had the comfort of being mindless. Then...I could follow religion and wouldn't have to think....All of the questions and answers would be given to me...but that would be the same as being blind and deaf. Anyway, I am not perfect......I am not all knowing...I am just a human like everyone else. Trying to find the meaning of life where there is none. - 20:46:39 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MONDU- I doubt that this site can give you a whole lot of answers about life but I can assure you that you won't learn them from a god that does not exsist. This you have learned. As far as making the world a better place, it can be done in a million ways! Atheists do not have a creed, we simply do not believe in a god. Most atheists, I would imagine are people who also would like to make the world a better place but then again, I'm sure there are atheists who frankly don't give a damn. Atheism is not a religion. - 21:34:56 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:MONDU- There is meaning in life. It's the survival and betterment of our species. - 21:37:02 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->MODHU..if you want, I can give you a site address that may be more for what you are looking for. E-mail me at jocjopet@golden.net and I will tell you about it, to see if it is what you want. - 21:51:56 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL...since you are the most well read person I know of, have you seen the list of the top 100 20th century novels? Interesting selections (I've only read about half of them myself - got off the novel kick several years ago) - 21:54:20 on 24 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:JOETTE-- MARLENE-- Sorry, only had a few minutes to post this morning. Could have been clearer. Was trying to say that a person who is unable to act effectively (impotent) because of a poor understanding of how the world works or of human nature, which may result in undesired reactions or treatment from most everyone, may in frustration seek a villain to blame for the world's (his) problems, such as conspirators, Jews, members of other races, atheists, etc. Everyone wants life to make sense but it's not a case of either a good grasp of reality or reserving judgment. It's a case of a good grasp of reality or a simple and poor grasp of reality and resulting self defeating behavior. - 6:51:35 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Joette...Puggles, this one is for you.:->GRANT...thank you for explaining that. I got the gist of it, but wasn't sure if it was just an overall insult directed at everyone. There are those who enjoy the more cryptic messages, as they don't have the cajones to say what is on their mind but I didn't think you were one of those. - 13:41:34 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

TRUTH:I'm a man who's a little confused about everything. I don't know what to believe. I've studied evolution as well as the Bible. Evolution is looking pretty grim, but sometimes I have trouble believing in God. - 14:19:32 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

TRUTH:can someone HELP?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 14:21:12 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

TRUTH:Modhu, I have every answer you could ever want, b/c God gives me all the wisdom I have. If anything I would like to talk to someone with as much intelligence as me! - 14:27:19 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- Thanks! and True! - 14:35:06 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..the Truth be told..:TRUTH- With a wisdom giver like your god, who needs head injuries! You won't find anyone here on the same intelligence level as you are other than RTL. - 14:37:47 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Joette...gloves are off...:-->TRUTH..if you are so intelligent, why the heck are you here looking for answers? Stop being so silly. - 15:05:02 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:TRUTH. The TRUTH is out - out of the closet. From someone who has doubts and is looking for help, tou suddenly turn into a knowing theist, offering the "wisdom" of god. A typical sneaky christian ploy, worthy of RTL. If you want to talk to soeone as intelligent as you are I suggest you visit an institution for the mentally retarded. - 17:15:37 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:>>>a simple poor grasp of reality? Can you please elaborate this subjective notion in simple terms? Scapegoats are used by people directly and indirectly. In a sense certain grasps of reality of a person are more salient than others when objectivity is applied. - 17:28:39 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:oops, that question was directed to Grant - 17:30:00 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:Joette. Who is this Puggles? Does that name have any cryptic undertones for others who are unfamiliar with that name's applications? - 17:37:01 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:TRUTH. You stated that you have all the answers, but it appears to me that you are stagnating in trivial synecdoches. - 17:42:06 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:modhu. Knowing every answer might be unattainable, but why do you like showing fools how stupid they can be? Is not this action sadism of your own saddlery? Just curious-- - 17:49:16 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:Papasam. Those mucky worms in your diatribe of decaying human corpses are interesting to point out because they ostensibly do not have the reason to understand cruelty indulged in as a sexual perversion. But modhu reasons that he likes it. - 18:11:01 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:WILL-- Yes it is subjective and my own grasp of reality is not above suspicion. Opinions are all you will find here. Mine is that RTL's grasp is simple and poor for the reason I have given; that he sees atheism as the cause of all ills. How is your grasp? - 19:00:31 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:WILL. What have worms and bugs feeding on decaying corpses have to do with "cruelty indulged in as a sexual perversion?" Are you implying that the insects are necrophiles? - 21:13:23 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:WILL. What have worms and bugs feeding on decaying corpses have to do with "cruelty indulged in as a sexual perversion?" Are you implying that the insects are necrophiles? - 21:15:02 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->WILL...touche. - 22:04:26 on 25 Jul 98 GMT

Will:Grant. I have grasped your elaboration and my opinions on any subject would be subjective as well. - 8:50:44 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Will:Papasam Certainly not, I was speaking necrologically. - 8:53:09 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Will:Joette.touche? Curious questions directed to another can appear to tweak that person into noncompliance. - 8:57:00 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..anyone can be condescending:WILL- you stop! Have you an opinion, no matter how subjective, on god? - 13:26:20 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Little Miss Muffet:Where there's a WILL, there's a whey - 17:04:04 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Wil:LMM. THANK YOU, davieth fondue a quirk captain not of clever. - 18:06:47 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Mary Mary Quite Contrary:One L WIL..too much time on your hand perhaps? - 20:00:07 on 26 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:It's unbelievable what The Learning Channel is featuring these days! The subject tonight was alien abductions. Two of the abductees describe having their eyes removed. Now wouldn't one think there would be evidence of some kind of trauma to the eye after something like that. It wasn't surgically removed but kind of plucked out by a claw type of instrument. It's interesting to note that every one of the abductees were clients of the same therapist and believe it or not, his name wasn't Mack. - 3:20:59 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Little Miss Muffet:Spirit: Annie. There is a dark spirit here that wants to destroy you. Your salvation lies there. In the pages of the book. Recite the passages. Dispel the Evil. Save my soul. And your own lives! <The spirit disappears>BobJoe: Jake. You're holding my hand too tight. Jake: Baby, I ain't holding your hand. - 5:52:25 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Mary Mary Quite Contrary:---certain individuals use one "l" and still others use two "l's" in their use of their 'certain' names. At last, the person would not use a "l" for a name of Steve. This usage is not contrariness. There is no usurpation here only opinions. - 6:15:42 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Little Bopeep:Looks like rOB is back. Spirit has been destroyed. - 10:46:24 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Looks this site has had some planetary(wanderer) kinda'posting. I begin this post so's to also bring up how I for one at least crinkle my nose at the apparent mindlessness of theists who 'say' they believe in a biblical godthing. My point of view is that it was composed by folks not much better than a ignorant caveman and surely they were but a savage collective. Now, of the alternative, lets say science. Of those deep space pic's I see but bright specks claimed to be stars or some, galaxies. And the claim does not end at that, "they" say it is composed of billions and billions o'stars! In another pic is another bright speck,"they" say is an explosian 12 billion light years away and furthermore its energy output exceeds all the energy of the present stars! As an alternative, is it any wonder that RTL types opt instead for a godthing? How did "they" determine to be such as they say? - 15:05:35 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: The learning channel was it? What did they say was the pretext or pretension for that program appearing as a learning thing? Was it as some psychological aegis or some kind of humanity thing? - 16:04:13 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Any o'you progressive types had a chance to pickup a copy o'R.Dawkins "Unweaving the Rainbow"? - 18:32:45 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I have no idea why the Learning Channel would host such a program without having some type of reasonable explanation for the experiences these people felt they went through. Maybe parents should be monitoring what their kids watch on the Learning Channel. - 19:23:03 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Perhaps the LC folks had something like this in mind, - 19:33:04 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Ok, so theistic types cannot say where their godthing is and me, well I cannot go beyond the all that comes of being born and having to finally just die. What makes for either, probably the 18 or so billion cells {that number o'brain cells is an accord o'some pundits} that are "lookin for something to think". Maybe the problem is just a numerical thing. - 21:33:44 on 27 Jul 98 GMT

Queen of Hearts:davieth fondue a quirk captain not of clever - 0:13:13 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

EX-ATHEIST: The more I understand atheism, the more I understand Hitler. - 4:34:26 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:EX-ATHEIST- Hitler was a religious man you idiot! There is no such animal as an ex-atheist. - 5:20:13 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- It would be nice if they did but I'm afraid they never mentioned the more logical explanation. I read SI whenever I can find it on the bookshelf, have you read their material? - 5:25:14 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

EX-ATHEIST::Marlene, you don't understand. I meant to say, the more I understand how crazy atheism is and how destrutive it is to society, the more I understand Hitler's proper reaction to it. - 6:13:17 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>>Today I want to show that there are instances in life where we must exercise FAITH. The concept of FAITH is understood by you, but the illiteracy of atheism causes atheists to have a tough time understanding it.^^^^^Now please turn your attention to our video screen. I am going to quickly show you the development of a child from the time of his birth up through a few years of his life. Notice that the child is born without any knowledge of his parents. As the godly parents tenderly care for the child, you will notice that the child gradually learns to have faith in his mother to feed him and has faith in the tender care of his father. At such an early age, he is not capable of reasoning.^^^^^Now please turn your attention from the screen and focus your attention on another example: Notice the woman as she purchases or leases a motor vehicle. Although some women understand the technical operations of motor vehicles, yet there are many who don't. Now notice that as she daily drives her vehicle, she exercises a faith that it will crank, operate properly and get her where she intends to go without any technical knowledge of its mechanical operations. This does not means she has a "bird brain." She may be a doctor, an attorney and etc. She purchases a Mercedes so that she can exercise more faith in the vehicle.^^^^^Full knowlege is never gained instantly about anything. Therefore there will always be instances where simple child-like faith must be execised.^^^^^^What I want you to do when you leave this class is challenge every atheist you meet to prove he or she exercises pure reasoning in everything they do in life. Get them to prove that they never execise faith in anything. When they are made conscious of the fact that ninety percent of their lives are lived in the exercise of FAITH, you will find that not one of them wil admit it, and you will receive dishonor from them. That's what atheism causes poor atheists to do.^^^^^CLASS DISMISSED. - 6:15:03 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

EX-ATHEIST::Hitler has been made out to be the greatest villan in history. I use to hate Hitler. But now that I understand the terrible desructive influences of atheism and homosexuality, lesbianism, liberalism and etc, I perceive he is not the villan he has been portrayed to be. - 6:30:18 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

PETER ( implementing his new method s to battle theists ): TEACHER-- you are still an idiot, Robert--and always will be. EX-ATHEIST: Fuck off - 6:52:10 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Rob ("Oh lawdy, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz"):Ex-Ample: And of course, think of the terrible destructive influences of those disabled people and Jewish babies... n-oh vey. cheaTer: "Faith" is insufficient terminology for the spectrum of actions you are describing. Anyhow, at least the woman is making an assumption based upon verisimilar justifications. And besides, she acknowledges the fact that it might not crank and get her there properly. Look where "faith" got Diana... - 8:27:57 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:--->ROB..good post. Unfortunately it will fall on blind eyes. - 10:54:44 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Joette..my friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends..:-->ROBERT T. LEE...okay, you win. I have found FAITH. I have faith that everything you write will be rife with hatred, bigotry and just plain old bullshit. - 10:56:50 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (The one id man):JOETTE: Thank you, though it was as much for my benefit as theirs. Expressing an opinion is usually a good way of testing it (IMHO), so even if RTL stays blind, at least I can maintain a cornea stance. - 11:38:23 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:ROB-- You're a good contrast to those on the other end of the thinking spectrum. - 11:43:38 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:EX-- Hitler as innocent victim of atheism? You don't seem to require any more evidence in other areas than you do in regards to religion. Tell me, do you use this same standard of judgment in regards to "welfare mothers," criminals, etc. Don't atheists get to be the innocent victims of anything? - 12:05:30 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Jerry>>>>>:-TEACHER--What you are talking about is actually 'trust' and not faith at all when the term 'faith' is used in a religious context. This slothful use of the term faith is common with theists when the make the analogy about having faith your car will run, etc..but that is actually 'trust'. To have 'faith' in the religious context, means to believe something will be true regardless of the evidence. It means to dispel and deny any points of reference inasfar as establishing a standard of proof or recognotion of reality. When the actual meaning of faith is substituted in the 'woman owning a car analogy' ( which incidentally smacks once again with your usual prejudices, as a direct result of your belief system ) as the word 'faith' is implemented in the christian context, that woman would have to believe her car would get her to where ever she was going--regardless of what condition the car was in. Its engine could be seized--or even removed--in fact if every vital piece in that car required for its smooth operation was either malfunctioning or missing, and she still believed that car would get her to where ever she wanted to go--THAT is having 'faith'. The 'trust' would no longer be applied as sson as it was apparent the car was no longer in working order--and this is how a rational person would induct this information. You slothfully refer to this trust as faith--but this isn't the same kind of faith used in the religious context. When the 'trust' in the car's operability was no longer granted, and a belief the car would still operate regardless of its condition--THAT would be where faith enters the picture, as it would in the religious sense. Regardless of what evidence shows otherwise, the reference point is abandoned ( ignoring what factors are required to make a car operational )and a belief that just sitting there hoping and praying will make the car fix itself and become operational again, and truly believing that it will--simply because your consciousness wills it to be so, and that your consciousness alone can alter reality. Now, can you see how utterly irrational faith is--how its applications can have disastrous results--and that to have it would be anything but a virtue--but in fact the greatest vice conceivable by any person who has the ability to think? You may think this is preposterous, but this is precisely the cognitive process of how a theist reconciles the existence and the power of God. ..... I don't expect that my explanation here will alter your feelings on faith--but I am certainly grateful there are some of us out there that reject the concept of faith immmediatly at its roots and recognize its disastrous implications..... - 12:38:14 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- That may be true about no such animal as an ex-atheist. Hard to go back to believing in The Wizard after you've looked behind the curtain. :-) - 13:38:26 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JERRY: Perhaps the illiteracy of RTL aka teacher, is simply related to his religious confusion. If he means to trailer trust to faith, perhaps he is of the protestant pursuasion. That connection is usually attributed to the difference 'twixt them and the mother church. As far as the 'faith' thing goes, that is a natural state of mind. RTL and other religious types through the ages have made fortunes and dealt death freely on any and all for that natural, psychological freeing-up of ones mind and brainware for other things. RTL as an example of religious types, due to that religious thing, are the proverbial stuck record, repeating the same thing again and again and again until their power is turned off. And life and all worlds go on, wherever? - 14:42:19 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:EX-A: You merely seek to glorify something that just so happens to be the choice you've made for all things. Your religious-theory, dare it be held that you assume godthing ways, for the all is rife with acts contrary to the well being of humanity. Acts and deeds for humanity have been engaged dispite religious procrastinations,i.e., worship heaven hells,etc., and outright opposition. Hitler, well, he was just another crazy and destructive religious fellow typical of that thinking, he wanted and meant to control all at any cost to any and all, but the chosen "few". Is this good for "all" humanity? - 15:04:00 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:EXATHEIST: It appears- by your pseudonym, that you no longer see to think but think to believe. If true, it reminds me of what Anselm the archbishop of canterbury who said and had enforced, "That we must first believe without examination, and may afterwards endeavor to understand what we have thus believed." what examination of the hitler did you conduct? That is a plaintive call for a static world. This is sad, and sadly also because it is an example, of many, of religious thinking. - 15:21:56 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Ok, a baseball update. The team I was part of lost in the championship game. They could not cleanly accept that they lost and shouted aloud, ah F'! I've had some good older boy teams and I thought this team the best young group I'd been a part of. They were speed on the bases, pitchers had a variety of pitches and speed- 80 mph, they could hit and throw. All outfielders could throw an out at first if the ball got to them to soon. And they lost committing 15+ errors, loosing to a slow running fat team, well they one speedster. My 12 year old however, if you've ever wondered what a storybook team is they are it. Coaches aren't too keen to the game, the boys ain't real fast and pretty good arms, sometimes they throw it away and sometimes one or two get timely hits. But they won the North state tournament and go to the west coast tournament in L.Angeles. Its fun. - 15:55:29 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (It's not the size, it's the frequency):GRANT: That's probably cos they've been Dopper shifted ;) cheaTer: When will you wake up and realise you've got >>>>>NO CLASS>>>>> ? - 18:12:10 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Except for RTL and the ex-atheist, who are examples of those who already have enough fears and problems, who knows or has an understanding on the Y2K thing? I was readin'the CNN reports on that, Y2K a CNN acronym, and it tells about all kinds o'wacky stuff. Does the millinium thing concern any here? It seems like something that in any concern,e.g., financial or records, that after a day two ought to be set aright w/out any trouble. Is this just another xtian superstition that somebody might turn a buck or two or scare someone into a religion? - 18:52:33 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Y2K??? I haven't heard. I'm interested too, maybe someone else has some info. - 19:19:55 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (Styx and stones):MARLENE: Carl is referring to the millenium bug, which he should know is the START OF THE APOCOLYPSE!!! (Are you telling me it is a mere coincidence that 2000 divided by the trinity is 666.666 recurring?!?). - 20:03:32 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ROB: U kno 'ahm skeered! ancient pseudo-science 'r not, chuckle! chuckle! That CNN report o'course had to further belittle the religious mental-types by tossin'in a piece on how some folks would be saving the folks they could. These tales and reports have me first frowning then shaking my head at the utter ignorance of the religious believer. They ought to want to do better than that with 18 billion brain cells. - 20:39:49 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Joette with 2.000 beans to count...:-->CARL..well, I'm being bugged by the millenium thing. I have had at least 20 "experts" call me so far to see if they can upgrade my computer systems. What are these people going to do on Jan. 2, 2000? - 20:52:02 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Rob (I ain't Lion):CARL: Well there's more. On Aug 18th, 1999 the planets of our solar system will line up into the shape of a cross. And they will line up in the signs of Aquarius, Leo, Taurus and Scorpio which just happpen to correspond to the four beasts of the apocalypse as mentioned in the book of Daniel ;) Can I interest you in an insurance policy? - 21:36:05 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ROB: So good ol'mother earth, terra firma itself really is the center of all, glory be! {That has to be the only way the apack-o'lips is real} - 21:46:40 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

What do you call a group of Afro-American paratroopers jumping? A flock of lips now. - 21:50:57 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: backin'up to the book list; a female book store owner said it best- for where I ended up, when a tv reporter inquired what she thought of that list. She said, "Lets take a look at who made up the list, white men of and for white men." Anyway, as a Hungry-I, it didn't make sense that the list was ever the best when so many others were/are there. Its like the Britannica's "Great books of the Western World" collection, hell! Newton and Euclid are so out of it, they are just for kids, but they are part o'that collection. The list is just for Barnes and Noble and such other such mid-stream{tame} bizzes. - 22:15:27 on 28 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:*** tHIS is directed to the Cariot and not to any atheist here. As I mentioned I have no qualms with anyone here just the deceitful Cariot and its pseudo-imposter applications. Logically as it continues the Cariot wILL or maybe wIL use my name as well in its cruel illogical pursuit. bUT in wILLING (it can't) it has been foiled; it is only iterative jester of alchemey iridium. This iLL-spent cat is iLL-timed in its usage of anothers' name. All the children are not insane, bUT the Cariot wallows in mental lYING. I am not a davieth modhu rOB parrot or any additional imposter ilk unknown; for she is tied in their fences; bUT fences bind the contours of Nature as does this cat's mental lYING. tHERE is no safety or surprise for the Cariot applications. tHE end of laughter simplicity of Anselm poetic words in retrospective stagnation; tHAT is its ontological oUTLOOK anyways.*** A Cariot is shadows of lIQUID*** In the wind of diminsh oh so neat in its applications*** The lOOPHOLE it SlIPS > than themselves. *** tHIS Cariot rESIN gum incense is not a powerful key to the subconscious mind; the fire has dwindled in its applications of dubiety. iT rEASONS the EllA of shines of monkey, bUT it is a jester of IllOGIC -transparent SIlHOUETTES. The rUNE of a single branch is seen in the scheme of dimension split--- u(t)= S(t)u0~Sf(dt/2)Sg(dt)[Sf(dt)Sg(dt)]n-1 Sf(dt/2)u0; it requires works like splitting of Godunov. Certain formulas of split produce approximation sequence that converge in a solution of unique entropy; the discretization of spatial/temporal tends to 0 for different schemes. The Cariot monotone scheme tends itself in iteration of illogical sadism. Its saddlery whips its own shifty-shady eyes of shape-shift, which is not the child on the unicorn. One dimensional needs no grid of Cartesian while this monotone cat also needs one, bUT extended multidemensions introduce grids of UNDERlYING for collecting data of constant. Applying principle of maximum fpr eQUATIONS of hyperbolic can prove results of global stability. What is proved also is the rate of decay of perturbated solutions, which is polynomial at fronts towards... The partial differential of the Schrodinger type is just mechanical quantum amplitudes with bEHAVIOR particles associated, bUT bringing this to the relativistic faces some problems. Scientists are building fields of quantum theory. In some latter cases with psi and psi* some cheaT a bit because one pretends that psi and psi* are two independent fields in another's formulary, while actually psi _r and psi*_l are the independent fields. One is lucky that the rESULTING equations are the same. The Cariot's WIll or wIL continues only as the alchemist's jester... There are good reasons for being discontent with an analysis that leaves us with propositions, etc. and rest of the intensions. Commonly logical equvalence is adopted as the principle of individuation intensions. If S and S' are any two sentences with n(>= -0) free variables, the same in each, then the respective intensions of name by putting the n variable before S an S' are logically eQUIVALENT. It raise serious questions for intensions are at best a pretty obscure lot (the Cariot). Taking an example of trivial, consider 'w is hunting unicorns; the analogy of w strives y(y finds a unicorn) of w. We dodge speaking of intensions by speak of sentences, in NAMING these by quotation. We may say: w believes'...y....' satisfied by x. The words 'believes satisfied by' here would be viewed as triadic predicate in IrrEDUCIBLY ways... As is the far sides of a tree trackless, so is a challenge place for connective lEARNING of the way seeker. Respect with approach the herb spirit of simplicity to a mighty zenith siLhoutte; yes, rESPECT. The Luis Caorthann Criafol rOWEN OF NOT ONLY MID-WINTER OR METAL DOWSING is used, along with Alder for a liberation from binding magicks; it is set of two bars right srtaight. I have grasped my tarb feis of the modhu ala Sorbus aucuparia. A rOWEN OF 'l' OR 'll' of divided leaves of 11-17 to shield against the Cariot deceiver psychic attacks of illogical applications. In rETROSPECT it is a completion of the protection way of honor law and avoidance breakage cat of geasa; it is accountable. The dhubh whispers in non-biting tongues of trance "OI" of child rEBIRTH in white or red corny as fires are lit in the LITH. sOUNDLESSLY, bUT we're seen inside alchemy's goldmine and its skin is cold and repetitive and rEALLY THE Ogham is unused by others. tHIS cat fosters its own misguided wIL. Exact memorization is rEQUIRED of DO; it is the eloquence, divination and dreams of uneasy interpretive. To observe Nature, one must be acute and patient as the scientist scholar, for lEARNING and growing is unceasing. As the tongues of Uisneach are liberated , the memory is not imparied with vulgarity in which the Ogham is unused. The great fires of flowing take advantage of the imbalance as does the pc to determine lunar and solar eclipses; the 51 deg. 17 min. azimuths in separation of ninety are not random just as the death roads exist at these places. Once they come into contact they continue to interact after separation nonetheless; lET that be the existing free floating carbons. Close the gate that the 'LEAVES' of this place in peace. So moite, it be. As Ptah hotep said, "To give a few words of TRUTH and what you make of them will be your test". How is it not Cariot and its imposter ilk? BLFSN in 'l' duplicate mirror of travel shield as the knowledge key grow like seeds in the simplistic protection ways of the written foot.*** Lastly' to quote rAND, "Never try to justify or tie to rEALITY-or to negate for that matter-some hypothesis, or some "What if?" proposition for which there is no basis at all. That is the dead end of human epistemology, and worse than that. tHAT is a mind-destroyer." The Cariot and imposter ilk are like this, monkey shines for its self-defeating wiL. Bless and luck! - 0:00:42 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

huh? - 1:20:39 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

and the wolf in the sheep's clothing is lurking even though Little Bopeep has implored him to leave her flock alone. But he is selfish and believes he deserves to watch those he has destroyed as though they cannot feel his presence. Little Miss Muffet and learned how it feels to have her insides eaten away by the spider that crawled up inside her, and Mary is Contrary for good reason. The Queen of Hearts was a bit of a tart but the knives have found every heart on her gown and she is bleeding into the teapot. He has acted like Little Boy Blue but it is only the mask of a spider luring a fly into a web. Maybe the east will be the answer although he begged on bended knee to go west. He wants to die, so why doesn't he? He'd rather watch others suffer and die slowly, milking their pain for as long as they allow it to happen. He is an evil and selfish person, with no one left on his side. May he rue the day... - 1:29:09 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:PAM-- Have you ever listened to 'This Mortal Coil?' Some of their music you can't make out any of the words but I think maybe they just use the voice like another instrument. I kind of enjoy your posts, but, forgive me, in the same way as the aforementioned lyrics. - 2:06:22 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette...got that peaceful easy feeling...:-->PAM..as with Grant, I enjoy your posts too, and every once in a while I think I am getting the gist of what you are saying (as opposed to The Gist of the Gemini, but that is for a music page..) But I am curious as to why you get so uptight by others who post here that you consider "imposters"? How do you know they are imposters? Some of us encourage you, others downright castigate you, but I don't think there is anyone coming here to mock you...by the way, it is a very windy and stormy night where I live, and I was sitting in my yard, watching the huge ash trees in my yard swing to and fro. I was quite mesmerized by the way the trees were moving, almost hypnotically, and I began to wonder what it takes to go the next step in your beliefs, from just enjoying the nature to actually starting to believe that there are spirits afoot. Will you explain it? - 2:15:45 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

The west is the best in terran@flex.net. They are not spherical when they settle down. Instead their rotations causes them to bulge at their eQUATORS, leaving them oblate in a diagram of t-8 still. Of the time independent Schrodinger equation of the hyrogen atom*** The method of separation of variables is used to show the certain assumption functions and must obey certain equations; there are nAmes given to the arbitrary constants produced by the sEPARATION. Quantum mechanical problems can be cast as eigenvalue equations. A transfer mass in names of the star contain periods of short semi-detached binary star system with a sequence main primary star and eVOLVED subgiant companion in motion of close orbital aBOUT one another. A gas density in tidal stream sHOWS temperture sIMULATION on a gRID OF UNNATURAL ABOMINATIONS. For the homoclinic trees in rESONANT systems, there are curiosities and some are rEAL as is the mashed pulp in the keyboard, which divides the Cariot with its invisible tuffet of tularemia. In usage of this magick, VEXIB iN PADOJO; dRUID magick rESPECTS all Nature. Knowledge liberates us from being at the mERCY of things beyond our control. The knowledge tree eATS away the serpent's Nietzsche's s state hero of a Fracastoro's poem. It is synchronism in the description. This EllA of monkey shines is mental rEDRUM, rEDRUM, rEDRUM IN THE MACHINE WEB sYMPOSIUM. I am a rEVERSED MAp in the mirror toungue; the Cariot is no WIll or WIl over mE. Fires, Fires , Fires - 2:36:05 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:I would like to explain to you but of my geas already explained that is why I came back. If you really study the URL REHASH, the proof of the imposter is all there. I respect the atheist here and would like to stay but I can not because of my traditions. Goodbye respectfully!!! - 2:41:18 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:PAM. You have said goodbye so many times it's beginning to sound like a mantra by some east Indian mystic. Your gibberish is not only unintelligible, it is the symptom of an unstable mind. I suggest you seek help from a competent therapist. - 4:21:43 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL...you may be interested in this site, purely for entertainment purposes. - 11:01:49 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: While I don't know and it is outside my range of imagination what these folks like PAM and other 'druids'{?} carry on about, I think it significant that they and their weirdness find this site to be someplace they can let go of, whatever it is they do. But then so does RTL as well as did the quack, the latter was he also considered an undesirable at the theist sites? If someone was alone, as the theist last week put it, then the quack could be a candidate for that opinion. - 14:38:19 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I gotta say it, you know to keep a guy pleased, you are a rare one. Thanks for the site I'd never seen a ready made comparison like that, that takes one to very end. - 15:24:10 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..aw shucks ;). Anyway, it will be fun to watch the eventual outcome. It is bringing some keen interest back to the game. - 16:34:59 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam BIG BUTT …………:Yo, yo, yo, Jo…………Who you callin' a huge ash? - 18:57:31 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam BET W/JOETTE $$$$¢¢¢¢:To all: I highly recommend winning wagers from denizen Joette; it requires a hell of a lot of patience, but the payoff of potpourri is worth the weight. - 19:02:00 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..from you, that is quite a compliment! What's with the "huge ash"? Didn't get that...but I have been a yoyo lately, so you must be psychic. - 19:55:54 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam LEAVES ME ALONE ***** :From whence does my comment STEM, Jo-elm? See yo' post of 2:15:45, supra. - 20:05:43 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam BIG BARK!:Man-o-live! Dem is some huge-ash trees! Do I ARBOR ya'? Do ya' ROOT for the Jays? Whassamatta, can't take a little OAK? WOOD ya prefer I stop? MAPLE I will... - 20:09:49 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:*** The photoreceptors in the anterior end lack a brain but have ganglia. Its track contains enzymes which convert the okra humus into proteins and sugars. The castings are produced; it is the Anisakis simplex of papaworm as age will call out its jet-fighters. The castings are produced to clear away the debris positively.***I scream***you scream***we all scream for scoops of conspicuous consolation...In using the three obtuse wormwood of scent, the Anisakis simplex is ordered into triad. Now Roman crowds being crowds will make a sacrifice for elemental group experience, so are the sand fires of kindling and lyingin. tHERE is no prevention of the psi and psi* so the papaworm goes into the tombstone; hyperventilation of the left palm as the fire spoke. It is the mob with genetic gerund of DNA which forces the mind of monkey shines... Now as the pathworking is continuous so is the eminent domain of the triad of rays. They are the gold masculine sun , the silver moon of the feminie, and crystal possibility. No hyperventilation now as my arms lowered in intone 'I' on side. Now DO except 'A'. Now DO intone 'O'. In tRIAD intone (I,A,O) as it is not soundless. I breathe in the picture surrealism of Awen- Dichetal Do Chennaib. Formulic spells must be mastered before they are cast, for the Cariot as been foiled and my pathway in this domain is complete. There is no gain though only Nature's balance of eQUILIBRIUM and it is not directed towards any atheist here. It is of the magickal sIGNIFICANCE of Strabo written as is the balance and inspiration journey of the bridge-builder of lines of dragon and different tRADITIONS and cultures. - 20:28:46 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM...lo siento mi amigo. Gotcha now. Most amusing even if you had to do TREE postings to 'splain it to me. - 20:56:42 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

- 21:00:29 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

who dat? - 21:01:53 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->Does anyone know where Steven has disappeared to? - 21:03:40 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam ROBERT PLANT **** :Grow-ette **** I thought the humor would spruce up the page. I was just needling you. Whadya expect fir nothin'? Rubber Tree? - 21:15:01 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:no wonder we are always pining for your presence! I CEDAR point you are trying to make, so leaf me alone, you nut. - 21:38:33 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->Hey ADAM..got your powerball ticket? Will you remember your poor Canadian friends if you wake up a quarter of a billion dollars richer tomorrow? Same message to all you other sweet and loving Amarahkens. - 21:41:16 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Elsewhere I read that one of the problems of science today lay with postmodernist types. My curiosity aroused, I looked for, found and read some of the things such folks do, and it sure looks and reads a lot like the PAM stuff. As P'SAM regularly points out, PAMs' posts seem to convey nothing.** While the postmodernist may have or just hold sincere reservations their- of the readings, intentions seemed mostly but to disapprove of things, but not to engage in a dialogue. That very quality of one seeking to engage a dialogue with any, does not appear in PAMs'posts, as if PAM is a postmodernist. The PM types have written books, mayb I'll see one. - 21:41:49 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Adam GOT NO BALLS:LumberJo ££££ New York is not a powerball state, and I have no interest in running up to Connecticut just to wait in line. The NY Lotto tonight, however, is a respectable US$40 million ($73.8 trillion Canadian), and I have $10 down. If I win big, I'll buy you a season ticket for the Jays. - 22:02:24 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: B4 going elsewhere any familiar w/agape? I was watchin'the theochaters and it looked as tho' they don't clearly know what it means. Early days it was about the dead, yes? - 22:57:29 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM...the exchange you cited is just about right LOL! Ticket? Ticket? TICKET? You too cheap to buy me two tickets so that I can at least have company???? - 23:18:41 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

Joette: "Carl:OPEN: While I don't know and it is outside my range of imagination what these folks like PAM and other 'druids'{?} carry on about, I think it significant that they and their weirdness find this site to be someplace they can let go of, whatever it is they do." CARL or ANYONE...I have been giving this some thought...wouldn't it be nice to have a release like that where you just go somewhere and say whatever you want to say, even if no one else knows WHAT THE HELL YOUR ARE TALKING ABOUT??? I envy those that do it without shame or embarrassment. - 23:48:21 on 29 Jul 98 GMT

tsk tsk jealous or remembered tick tick - 0:13:15 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Horus, we will you a shameful child censor!!! - 0:17:14 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:Looks like somebody took me up on the challenge! - 0:19:56 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

2000 divided by reversal names of 3 is such a simple game of simpletons, troglodytes, and trochaic - 0:33:43 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

you forgot the --> what an embarrassment - 0:38:54 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

wasn't there a song about troglodytes? - 0:50:58 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

in those citations 3=3 so is the last embarrassment - 0:52:59 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

distinctions between opposites are put to shame and illumination is possible - 1:49:47 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:Carl... B3 to me it is PM now. I am not Naomi Mitchison of her "Early in Orcadia". For she had done what you are doing now--> in the use of language both of you try to convey the 'possible thought' processes of her characters in chess play. It is the Joyce's difference. In elaboration, engaged in the written does not = memorization in mnemonic; everthing in the crystal is red along with the binding. As of your Tacitus record, it stuns in the mesmerized shine progression with curses and impreciations of Coligny Calender. Curiousity well-read still allows misinterpretations. The mistletoe of the binding parasitic papaworm includes most wondorous aphrodisiac powers; it severes the skulls in the small 'lake' fires. As in Tir na Og, the binders of their making 'bob' for apples in the Halloween tub of their own thinking. New Romans still try to eliminate the oral tradition; of which, I mentioned long ago , it is taboo to break. Respect remains there... The grasshopper with its h2o is still jumping around the gold of the thought processes; I find that dendrite branch most interesting respectfully, for you have the postmodernist affixation of Airbe Druad in your own thinking process. HMM possibly!!! In using the paradox deception, the more successful the crowd of Roman is at creating the condition for the freedom individual, the sooner it collapses... Your well educated but the modern man does not have the cohesion of the psychic; it can not be studied in the scientific realm of land because of the h2O grasshopper's willing enjoyment. Supposed knowledge just likes to control the future of the mind; this is the Cariot's encystment. When you watch and also read Keats' nightingale is there not fire knowledge there??? In completion of the invisibility, I will Feth Fiada, but I wIL not "mIST" you in the IllOGICAL cowl coincidence. We are both ZAMTHETUS of the lord o' flies and the complete rational man in synchronousness... As for the insanity of the papaworm creature, it is buried in productivity.*** Oh yes , this is directed to the cat and not to any atheist--> I wIL in lurk to see the fire of the shameful child censor of the one eye. - 3:06:29 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

there is a difference between going berserk and going apesh***t... it is censor,trigon, travesty - 3:39:19 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

44.1kHz 16bits, the memory has 48 patterns, and of course 3 songs - 4:06:03 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

who dat der gonna beat up dem' 3 saints? - 4:08:09 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Morgan Llewelyn:horus says: ok, let's start before it gets too late. first of all excuse my somewhat bad typing. > horus says: standard disclaimer...everything i say is based on my personal experience, experiences of fellow hobbyists and literature I've read. > horus says: synodontis multipunctatus is one of the most beautiful catfish in lake tanganyika. > Roger says: the room has been muted, only Horus and I can now speak. IF you have questions, please ask me for the mic, and give it back to me when you finish > horus says: they are relatively common, extremely hardy once acclimated from the wild, and with them being bred in captivity by more hobbyists, they are becoming more readily available and affordable to the general public. > horus says: it is a schooling/shoaling catfish endemic to most parts of lake tanganyika. > horus says: the somewhat interesting characteristic about this fish is the way it spawns, or at least has been spawned in captivity. > horus says: it is not known exactly how this fish breeds naturally in the lake, but in captivity it has been bred using a host fish...that is, another species of fish that is currently breeding. > horus says: this is necessary because the catfish have little or no interest in taking care of the eggs once they are laid in the tank, thus they must get the assistance of another species of MOUTHbrooding fish(a fish that incubates their eggs in their mouth) > horus says: the purpose of the host fish is solely to incubate the synodontis eggs as in captivity the synos seem to have no interest in whatsoever. > horus says: i have bred synodontis multipunctatus on 3 different occasions, each time using a different host fish. i am currently breeding them in a 55g(4') tank using electric yellows as my host fish. > horus says: i have 2 wild trios of synos, and 2M,7F adult jumbo electric yellows. > horus says: other host fish that i have used in the past are a. burtoni, "hap" callipterus, and p. multicolor(Egyptian mouthbrooder). > horus says: the key to making this work is that the synos must be in with a group of fish that is actively breeding. > horus says: also, the host fish cannot be something that is too aggressive that they will not allow the synos to breed in this "cuckoo-spawning" manner. > horus says: the bigger the group of host fish(and it should be as female heavy as possible), the better your chances of breeding this fish. it can be done, and is not as hard as you might think. > horus says: before i describe my breeding tank setup, I'll briefly describe the manner in which this fish spawns for those of you that are unfamiliar. for those of you that know, bear with me. :) > horus says: basically here's what happens...you have to make sure the synos are well conditioned. i isolate them and put them in their own tank where they are conditioned for 1.5-2 weeks. > horus says: during this time, i feed them an extremely hi protein diet consisting of mysis shrimp(frozen), bloodworms, mosquito larvae, etc. anything that's high in protein. > horus says: after conditioning, add them into the tank with your colony of host fish. > horus asks: you will be able to tell ANYTIME any of your host fish are spawning. how? > horus says: because the synos will be swarming and swimming around very actively. otherwise with the exception of feeding time, they will be hiding, based on my tank setup. > horus says: the host fish spawns, the female and male are circling around doing the dance, etc. and then she drops the first egg(s). male host fertilizes them and female picks them up and puts them in mouth for incubation > horus says: during one of these circling/spawning moves, almost as quick as a flash of light, the female syno will swoop down right on top of the site where the host fish are breeding. > horus says: the male syno is millimeters behind her. > horus says: the female host lays a egg(s), but before the male host can fertilize them and the female host can pick them up in her mouth, the female syno(with male behind her) comes in to the hosts' nest, eats the hosts' eggs, lays a bunch of eggs over the hosts' nest area, and the host female comes back around to pick up her own eggs to brood, only to pick up syno eggs. > horus says: she will not only pick up a few, but as many as she sees in the general area. > horus says: for breeders purposes, the others can be removed via a turkey baster. > horus says: and incubated. > horus says: thus, the host fish ends up incubating the syno eggs. the syno eggs hatch in 2 days, whereas with most species I've used as hosts don't hatch until 5 days. > horus says: newly hatched synos begin eating whatever's closest to them, usually the hosts eggs or other syno eggs. > horus says: the breeding tank is setup with large pieces of slate on top of reno caves and flowerpots. there are 3 "tiers" in the center of the tank and much open space for breeding. the synos usually hang out in the "tiers". > horus says: the fry of these synos are quite hardy and can begin eating live baby brine almost immediately. keep them well fed and mortalities will be minimal. due to the cannibialistic nature of this fish, you have to keep the babies in a manner where they have room to get away from each other but where they can find the food as well. > horus says: the catfish are clear->whitish when they hatch, only turning brownish after 4-5 weeks or so. they have most of their adult colors at 2+ months. > horus says: that's about all i can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure i left out alot of details, so if you want to pass the mic around, go for it. > Roger asks: questions? > horus says: questions, discussion, whatever... > Bard asks: How to you incubate the eggs the host fish misses? > horus says: experiences of others here who have bred to tried to breed them... > Roger says: let me also add that in Loiselle and Pool's Catfish and Loach book (reference information available in the bookshelf here), they discuss this species' breeding as well > Arcas says: are there any other syn species that have been breed in captivity > Severus bubbles: how important are water conditions to breeding? > horus says: i incubate them in tumblers that i had made for me. i understand that you can get tumblers commercially for as low as $10-15. don't know how efficient they are though. > Severus bubbles: test > Severus says: test > horus says: slow down on the ?'s just a tad...i can do one at a time. > horus says: arcas, s. ocellifer and s. eupterus have definitely been bred in captivity. I'm sure there are others that i can't think of, maybe the generic lace cats > horus says: water conditions don't seem to be as important to this fish to breed, but has to be right for the host fish. > Roger says: s. nigriventris as well > Juanmi asks: Is there any other synodontis that you know Jeff that follows multipunctatus technique for breeding? > horus says: my breeding tank is filtered with aqua clear 500 and tetra phaseII sponge on an AC802 powerhead. 1/4 inch of sand on the bottom > horus says: yes juan, the petricola are cuckoo spawners as well. and also the "dwarf" petricola. i have never bred either of them. > Juanmi says: Thanks > horus says: what intrigues me is how this fish multiplies in the lake...what it uses as a host fish, or if it just scatters the eggs like it does in my tank and leave them and some hatch. > Arcas says: this Cuckoo method is strange... bizarre... This had to be discovered accidently... I would have freaked out..if I stripped a mouthbrooder and discovered baby syn... > Roger says: I wonder if any studies have been done on the matter > horus says: btw, the synos apparently lay up to 40 eggs. > horus says: i stripped a h. callipterus once and there were 32 eggs in her mouth. > Roger says: another interesting this is that the syno eggs are different colors from the cichlid eggs, yet the cichlids will pick them up anyway > horus says: you will probably only witness the actual breeding act once if you're lucky because I've only seen it happen three times. > Severus bubbles: do the synos help the cichlids in any way? > Severus bubbles: or are they just parasites? > horus says: if you use an mbuna, the mbuna egg is 2-3 times the size of a syno egg, but if you use something like p. multicolor or burtoni when they are young, they can't tell(i believe). > Roger says: the example used in Loiselle's book is p. lombardoi, I think > Bard asks: is there enough sexual dimorphism in the multipunctatus that I will be able to identify the sexes at the fish store when I buy tomorrow? > horus says: i don't know if the synos help or hinder the host fish. eventually, some of the host fish do get wise to the synos and at that point, you have to change hosts or give them a break. > Roger laughs. > horus says: yes bard. if you look at the fish swimming from right to left, the males have a little "penile" type tube, short albeit easily recognizable. > horus says: a little extension maybe 3-4mm > Bard nods his head in understanding. > horus says: and none on the females. > Bard grins. > horus says: they do take a long time to grow out. i have some that are 3 years old and they are barely 3". > Bard asks: at what age do they breed? > Arcas says: they are really slow growers..wow > horus says: if you want to breed them, buy wild adults. this is your best bet. I'd guess that the F0 adults that come in at 5-6" are at least 5 years old. > Bard nods his head in understanding. > Roger asks: do you know their life expectancy? > horus says: I'd guess that they breed after 5 years. I've found females to be larger than males, at least in the groups I've had. > horus says: don't know, rog. never had one croak on me. the F0s come in in good shape and this is a bullet-proof catfish. > Roger nods his head in understanding. > Bard asks: are they omnivorous? > horus says: i think they'll eat anything you throw in. at least, try to eat it. > Bard nods his head in understanding. > Severus bubbles: how do they get along with other synos? > horus says: start the babies off on baby brine for 2-3 weeks, then you could probably go to finely crumpled flake. > horus says: no problems. most synos only fight amongst their own kind > Severus bubbles: what would be needed to grow a normal spawn out for 2 months? > Arcas says: they are slow growers , Ken > horus says: there is no normal spawn with these. it's entirely dependent on A) if your host fish let the synos do this, and B) how many syno eggs were picked up by the host, because what's left is probably eaten quickly by the bystanders unless you are right there to get them out. > horus says: but if you had say 50 catfish, you could easily grow them out for 2 months in a 20g, preferably a 40. bare tank, of course. > Bard asks: no cover to prevent the fry from lunching on each other? > Bard asks: just room to flee? > horus says: I'm sorry, i meant bare-bottom tank. i use a few large smooth rocks and a few pieces of slate stacked at angles. simple, but just break up the tank a bit. > Bard nods his head in understanding. > horus says: i.e. lean the slate against the corners at 45 degrees. > Roger asks: any more questions? > Juanmi applauds > Roger says: thanks for hosting tonight, Horus > Juanmi says: Nice talk Jeff > Bard says: well I am intrigued, thanks for the great presentation on a great fish. - 6:08:33 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Well it looks as tho'pandoras box is open again. - 14:20:30 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Ooh! PAM addresses me bekons to me they say rings and studs pierced into the body, they say it doesn't hurt. Does PAM do the gothic thing? - 14:26:12 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:I'm listening to a local radio talk show on Disney movies and the alleged sexual content of The Little Mermaid and The Lion King. The xtians are calling in, all upset about how Disney is showing subliminal messages to "put sex into our children". Really! Are children sexless to begin with? What child should be without information on sex? I lived on a farm, I understood reproduction since I was four years old. What do the xtians expect to do? Coverup reproduction information until the kid is 18? What a useless task, not to mention an irresponsible one. - 15:16:44 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- You hit the nail on the head! This is the Gothic scene that Rob and Pam and now Morgan, is into. - 15:19:02 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:BTW, notice I wrote "is" instead of "are". - 15:20:01 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:oops! I suppose I should have not pointed that out, that was supposed to be subliminal! - 15:21:42 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

see tho' hope in that box of transom , transom, transom, not remained at the bottom irregardless of 'placement' classification for phagocyte widow inherited the last - 15:27:42 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

wrong are you really that ??? binding again no offense for the trees have no need for it - 15:30:05 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

it is of the qualm of the cat of many months of which you should explore and not of a misunderstood Druid's transmigration... explained in the url proof countlessly, which for me it is annoying but that is life's flicker besides. i said i am a reversed MAp of training and i wIL the cat away in lurking ...trees seek no control of indoctrination of which this cat has done for many months now. david, keith , modhu, slopehead, queen of hearts, etc.,etc., etc., a Druid has no need for sigils, logos yes. I have tied this cat in triple knots of it simple surrealism for some time now, of which 3 is a sacred number for me. This Cariot (WHICH means cat) seeks to control your subconscious not me of which i explained my reasons for learning and posting. - 15:58:33 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

as i have tried to help for this person (cat) seems to use chaos magick , modern egyptian ritual magick of which i explained to you many months, bUT Druidic magick rESPECTS ALL of nature and balance i have foiled the cat's attack on my subconscious numerous times with logical applications, but i wIL to lurk for as i have stated months ago i seek no indoctrination or control as outlined in the url rehash and of my oRAL tradition it is taboo to break - 16:07:46 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Disney and sex? But disney did other more important things that were against the harmony of humanity. And sex! what is wrong with that? It always brings folks together. Outside of the 'consequences' of incest and rape, all sex is good in any way that it happens, including that of your own domain. Ever have a wet dream that left you dwelling on the damnation of it all that you woke up? I have had some dreams of warm silky thighs and breasts that ended before, well of course you know the rest. - 16:23:01 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

domain=simple=simplicity - 16:27:50 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I guess the xtian and druid types somehow or other, figger spirits and tress and magick and dead cats{?} are better alternatives to sex. Or it is a pleasure that they just don't 'understand' well enough so they again figger, that doin'those other things with their 18 billion brain cells, a better way may be hidden therein? I harzard a guess that they don't hold the work and effort of gettin'some, is worth it. Sour grapes? - 16:37:31 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

.. eventually it becomes vague, then vanishes and success is assured, Little Miss Muffet is a complete failure here, Naomi Mitchison, Morgan Llewelyn, and the Bard wIL you EllA, EllA, EllA a bad monkey with no domain - 16:44:54 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

dead cats no longer feel respect!!! - 16:50:12 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

18 billion dendrite branches flow in free association and not prune juice prejuidice - 16:53:43 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

citation of 3,3,3, in wIl of in and between the severed skull lake - 16:56:09 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:16:53:43; "prejuidice", within that large number of cells, did this "prejuidice" {as you put it}, before or after conceptual activity? I hazard a guess that you really meant prejudice. - 17:21:48 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:MORGAN. Why bother posting your fish breeding info on an atheist site? Was it rejected by an Ichtthyological journal? Are you using it as a sounding board to boost your own ego? Why don't you search the web for a suitable site? - 17:28:28 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Vvillage Blacksmith:DRUIDS. I have just had a conversation with my favorite chestnut tree. It told me that if you insert an acorn forcibly into your anal orifice you will sprout dendrils from your mouth and be one with the druid pantheon. - 17:37:40 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:PAM. Your condition is deteriorating. Please see a psychiatrist as soon as possible. - 17:40:52 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:ANONYMOUS. If you are not ashamed of what you have to say, why are you ashamed to post your name? No one will bite you. - 17:44:42 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Now come on now Eella, Eella, Eella your sexual magick of 'pro sex' is not vague enough... you wIL try again to nudge, nudge, nudge... you're drowning in too too too much sybolism...tHERE is no mission to control inhibitions... the vVillage blacksmiths wILS 3 swords of own positions...davieth, davieth, davieth wILS his own harvester of eyes of death postures - 18:17:31 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

whey whey whey your own censor suicide of the children - 18:20:54 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

tHERE is no segregation in the 3 realms...I wIL under 3 skins while your death stance is exposed in simplicity...clumh,clumh,clumh the surrealism is not of a Keats' bird - 18:24:44 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene:YIKES! Where DO they come from??? - 18:40:47 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Cugel:My thoughts exactly. - 19:32:09 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

ADAM No Tickee, No Shirtee ««««»»»»:PowerJo ««««»»»» Yeah, whatever, tickets. Didn't win; didn't come close. Maybe god is still pissed off about that ass-kickin' I laid on him. - 19:55:23 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL/MARLENE..given Disney's alleged innocence in their story telling, I have taken note that all of their hero/heronies are blessed with perfect facial features and body parts. Their villians are cruel and ugly, while the comical characters are usually chubby. So, they are guilty of perpetuating the myth that you have to be beautiful to be taken seriously, or cared about. The supposedly historical films are also rife with errors and literary licence, and they should stay away from trying to make movies that will teach children incorrectly. Sorry, never been much of a fan. Give me reality, or give me death. - 21:34:47 on 30 Jul 98 GMT

Marlene..you go girl!!:JOETTE- You do have some points there but as far as Disney being outlandishly sexually explict, I think the xtians are imagining something that's not there. Unfortunately, according to studies done, the beautiful people actually do attract more attention than those not so beautiful. Being a person who isn't one of the crowd, people with so-called good physical features don't always get my attention. In fact it's someone's manner that attracts me. - 3:42:07 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- ANY-- Did you read the News and Comment section of the July/Aug 'Skeptical Inquirer?' I thought the National Academy of Science statement regarding the importance of the teaching of evolution and other science in the public schools was excellent. Also liked the approach of the article- Planting a Seed of Doubt. - 4:25:41 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

sTUART PIGGOTT: A thing of evil that roams the forests and the dark bowers of man's domain. It is through the recitation of the book's passages that this dark spirit is given license to possess the living. Included here are the phonetic pronunciations of those passages. "Cunda astratta montose eargrets gutt nos veratoos canda amantos canda". <Ash chops off Possessed Linda's head with a shovel and buries her body> MirAsh: I don't think so. We just cut up our girlfriend with a chainsaw. Does that sound fine? (chuckle) <Ash's right hand turns on him> Ash: You bastards! You dirty bastards! <weeping> Give me back my hand! Give me back my haaaaand!!<Ash fights his possessed hand and then stabs it to the floor> Ash: Ah. Ah. That's right. Who's laughing now? Who's laughing now? Yahhhh! Ahhhh! <Ash cuts off his right hand with the chainsaw> Kyle (singing) Hush little baby don't say a word, Mama's going to by you a mocking bird. If that mocking bird don't sing, Mama's going to buy you a diamond ring. If that diamond ring turns gold in alchemy, Mama's going to buy you a looking glass. Kyle: Remember that song Annie? I used to sing it to you when you were a baby of no-such animal... For you can't return cat and seek revenge on me for kyle was guessed wrong in the url rehash ...in the curse of life wRITTEN on the domain door,the languages of pao create a third one as a skull-niche on the literature pillar...It turns out that the equation that governs that wave function psi is a partial differential equation, derivable from the classical Hamiltonian of the system. The equation is called: the Schroedinger equation. In this non-relativistic situation, the particles are still supposed to be particles, and the wave function psi is not some kind of field like the electromagnetic field but just the quantum mechanical amplitudes associated with the behaviour of those particles. O relative presents problems - 8:29:01 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Iocounou:to Cugel... O this proof the relieving of my dwelling in possession is not possible for tHere is a new rendering of the Ella Eot 0 cover where you are just a Jungian shadow archetype in banishment. In the showboat world of the apollon, the peripheral psi knows of the scoundrel in three lines of blur. It is not a trip through time for your departure is not knowing the governance for the first time. rEDEEMED from the cell,rEDEEMED by the virtue of healing country songs who taught children how to play, rEDEEMED by salamandar drake of the charms of you blurring eye of vance. - 8:55:14 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Pam:*** to Cugel... For vance used the name garstang on three occasions with minor mirror rEVERSALS... Cugel of course whispers not of his banishment as vance and its operators used 'koo-gull','kuh-gull','kud-dgel'. The phlox photoengraving pica here are simple to flummox but rHIALTO is trained in magic"k". Mindhe and the cohorts of cugel geworken are VEXIB again in proof of url rehash of none- ego building but of learning and the rEMAINING magickal significance.... Jean Parlier in reversed MAp wIL redeemed, so obviously your banishment by laughter in the future of CHAR is clownful magick. Now EllA, EllA, EllA as a warning --> remember about closing gates because of the one you fought and mocked a Druid wIL be rEMEMBERED. In the balance of nature there is no need for CHAR; I in wILLING go back to the LITH while rETAINING the geas unbroken in careful learning. - 9:30:46 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:GRANT: Have you seen any of the things religious organisations say as they seek to either promote creationism or detract the viability of evolution as a theory? As far as I can tell Behe is their champion, but for anyone that reads and thinks of either religious or evolutionary material within even a stricture of reason, religion and a godthing are nil. Behe speaks for this nilness but not evolution. Evolution as a theory accounts best for the connections of the past to now and a recognition of the action of evolution allows for predictions of a future. Why do the religious pray? Why worship? Why opt to believe words and storys composed by the savage ignorant? Or, why opt- as do the visitors, to think magick and trees and other such whatnaughts are worthy of, a boundless mind? - 14:48:38 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Pam***:Carl... An psi* is like a psi means psi* shares some conceptual properties with psi. It does nOT mean psi* has all the properties of the psi. Therefore in the use of the negative (say the usage of the square root of -1 in the complex system) what is true of the psi (Pam) is not true of psi* (EllA,EllA,EllA). tHE reasonable logic analogies can n0T strip in the false the scientific theories; obviously Behe commits this fallacy. To a Druid a fallacy, paradox, etc. is part of the free-fire association of the branch of life...Now to the Cugel ... This proof again of your clownful banishment in the url wRITTEN... in which be,be,be, does n0T eQUAL simplicty as I wIL in oRAL geas back yo the LITH. - 16:22:33 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Steven:SPAM<<>>will you please cut the spam out, it is quit annoying and is the cause of many headaches I am sure. Do you have the capability to post legible? - 16:56:00 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

PapaSam:DRUIDS. Instead of wasting your time cluttering our web site, why don't you go fight some forest fires? Can't you hear the cries of agony from the dendrils going up in smoke? What are you doing to prevent the holocaust? Where are you when Smoky the Bear needs you? What are you doing to prevent the destruction of the world's rain forests? Not a damned thing! Your gods and spirits are helpless to save themselves and you are all as useful as tits on a boar hog. Get lost. - 17:17:59 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: As a participant and reader/watcher of this site, I find it noteworthy of either theists and those far out and weird posters as PAM, they do not seek harmony w/other or all people. It is their private personal "game". I guess the fewer there are the better it is for "it" to remain as it is{?}. - 17:28:09 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Did ya'll like Huck and Jim and that gang, I often meant to bring up this 'URL' either again or finally, enjoy - 20:19:12 on 31 Jul 98 GMT